Post by: louf846 on July 14, 2009, 02:06:03 AM
Thanks for your patience and we appreciate your interest in seeing the balls in action. You will like what you see.
--------------------
Louis Franzetti
Track Regional Staff Member
Post by: Xcessive_Evil on July 14, 2009, 09:54:58 PM
Lou, any info on who will be doing the video. How about Mitch?
--------------------
You may be the better bowler, but my car would blow the doors off of yours.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v690/Phoenix_RsX/Arsenal/
Post by: Chief BK on July 15, 2009, 01:17:17 AM
--------------------
Track Staff Member
GM of Blue Ball Lanes - Blue Ball, PA
-Practice doesn't make perfect. Practice makes champions!
Post by: tenpinspro on July 15, 2009, 05:34:37 PM
Toward the end of my time of being on staff, some of you may remember that I took 3 different balls, stayed on the same line to show their strengths and weaknesses (they all didn't strike).
Who would like to see this again? I agree with Lou, videos just striking at will do very little for me. I'm more concerned with the differences from one piece to another to utilize their potential accordingly.
For those who understand speed to rev ratio, these videos are almost useless. I'd rather see one ball hook on a certain line and one not hook. If everything just hooked, why would you need the other 2? haha...
Please, just common sense...
If you guys agree, I will ask the man (FIG) permission to do this and then it will be done so long as he agrees. You guys vote or speak up...thanks.
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder
"El" Presidente of the Legion
Edited on 7/15/2009 5:36 PM
Post by: NJStroker on July 15, 2009, 07:01:30 PM
--------------------
Storm Virtual Gravity
Morich Awesome Finsih
Brunswick Avalanche Solid
Track Equation
SPARE
Post by: cisco1869 on July 15, 2009, 07:08:46 PM
quote:
Guys,
Toward the end of my time of being on staff, some of you may remember that I took 3 different balls, stayed on the same line to show their strengths and weaknesses (they all didn't strike).
Who would like to see this again? I agree with Lou, videos just striking at will do very little for me. I'm more concerned with the differences from one piece to another to utilize their potential accordingly.
For those who understand speed to rev ratio, these videos are almost useless. I'd rather see one ball hook on a certain line and one not hook. If everything just hooked, why would you need the other 2? haha...
Please, just common sense...
If you guys agree, I will ask the man (FIG) permission to do this and then it will be done so long as he agrees. You guys vote or speak up...thanks.
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder
"El" Presidente of the Legion
Edited on 7/15/2009 5:36 PM
I like the idea, just showing twenty strikes tells me nothing. Would you be comparing the tree new pieces to each other or comparing the new pieces vs the previous pieces?
Post by: louf846 on July 15, 2009, 07:17:04 PM
I don't know why some people won't consider a ball until they see a 230 average bowler strike with it in a video 10 times but some people like that.
If anyone lives near Indianapolis and wants to see the balls in person, let me know.
--------------------
Louis Franzetti
Track Regional Staff Member
Post by: tenpinspro on July 15, 2009, 08:06:13 PM
I still think it's on his website but I think he got tired of all the in house fighting which I am tired of also. Track is here to help...am I loyal, yes, I still love the Cubs and Bears..(go chicago..lol)
Okay guys, want the truth? lol....every ball is a POS....lol It's never your fault, driller and/or manufacturer's fault. Let's play and let the track staffers help you with the correct layout to get you reaction needed.
Thank you....
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
If you could superimpose the ball motion of all three balls onto the same shot and see the different angles and breakpoint locations, you would really see the differences in them.
I don't know why some people won't consider a ball until they see a 230 average bowler strike with it in a video 10 times but some people like that.
If anyone lives near Indianapolis and wants to see the balls in person, let me know.
--------------------
Louis Franzetti
Track Regional Staff Member
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder
"El" Presidente of the Legion
Post by: Xcessive_Evil on July 15, 2009, 09:08:04 PM
quote:
If anyone lives near Indianapolis and wants to see the balls in person, let me know.
--------------------
Louis Franzetti
Track Regional Staff Member
Too bad I do not. However, I am pretty close to Rick(Well, not really). He's gained my trust within the first hour of us meeting, so I'd be willing to watch any ball he would put on video.
--------------------
You may be the better bowler, but my car would blow the doors off of yours.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v690/Phoenix_RsX/Arsenal/
Post by: notsohotshot on July 15, 2009, 09:26:54 PM
Post by: Xcessive_Evil on July 16, 2009, 05:42:06 AM
quote:
Out of curiousity does anyone know why the track videos haven't been done yet? I know hammer and Columbia have had theirs out for while. Also does anyone know why ebonite doesn't do any videos at all for their new releases?
Also will the track videos be comparing to other brands?
Good question. I know they did it for their earlier equipment(with the exception of the Kinetic Energy-IMO the best in the Kinetic line). Why not for the new line yet? No idea.
It is weird that out of the four, Ebonite doesn't do them at all. I guess they have their reasons-but that's way over my head.
As for comparing it to other brands? Not likely. They may not even compare it to the pieces they are replacing.
--------------------
You may be the better bowler, but my car would blow the doors off of yours.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v690/Phoenix_RsX/Arsenal/
Post by: MC on July 16, 2009, 08:16:10 AM
I have 2 505c's and 2 715a's going to the pro shop today to drill for videos. I also have 2 930t's but I want to get the first two videos done first. I hope to shoot the video this weekend. Who has suggestions of what they want to see in the vidoes? Post them here or send me a message.
Mike
--------------------
"Don't Give Up... Don't Ever Give Up." -Jim Valvano
"Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence." -Vince Lombardi
VISIONARY TEST STAFF 07/08
Tag Team Coaching success story 
www.visionarybowling.com
Post by: SteveAustin2808 on July 16, 2009, 09:23:20 AM
-Michael-
--------------------
--Michael Price--
-McCorvey's Pro Shop Staff-
-"The Complete Bowler's Pro Shop!"-
http://www.mccorveysproshop.com/http://
Edited on 7/16/2009 9:23 AM
Post by: Xcessive_Evil on July 16, 2009, 10:30:19 AM
quote:
Who has suggestions of what they want to see in the vidoes? Post them here or send me a message.
Mike
Well, of course other than the typical shots on the THS/how far right or left you can play...How about seeing what they can do on a PBA pattern. I'm am not going to base this equipment off of what I saw in a recreational event(six flags), and no one else should either.
We know the 930 is taking the place of the rising series, we know the 715 is taking over the kinetic series, and the 505 is taking over the temper line. Show a true comparison between the old line and new line. Show us why this new line is Tracks' home run. Market the new line in the way the Rising(especially the S.E.), Kinetic(especially the Energy) and Temper line should have been.
This is your company. I'm not doubting your opinions on the line. However, if you are truly that proud of the results, then show it.
This is the point I've been trying to make the entire time.
--------------------
You may be the better bowler, but my car would blow the doors off of yours.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v690/Phoenix_RsX/Arsenal/
Post by: Billy Ray on July 16, 2009, 12:21:41 PM
quote:
They do have them done. However, My guess is that they (being Paul and Track) have seen enough of the complaints and agree with the idea about staffers throwing the balls in videos, does nothing for the general bowlers. How many posts have we seen about a 230 average bowler can make any ball look good?
I have 2 505c's and 2 715a's going to the pro shop today to drill for videos. I also have 2 930t's but I want to get the first two videos done first. I hope to shoot the video this weekend. Who has suggestions of what they want to see in the vidoes? Post them here or send me a message.
Mike
--------------------
"Don't Give Up... Don't Ever Give Up." -Jim Valvano
"Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence." -Vince Lombardi
VISIONARY TEST STAFF 07/08
www.visionarybowling.com
As a side note being a staff player for multiple years with a few different companies I can honestly say this. There have been balls I have drilled that no matter what the layouts or surface I couldn't make certain balls look good.
Sometimes you just don't match up with a particular core/cover combo.
I had tour reps layout balls for me and still couldn't match up with certain balls to the point they took it as a challenge to get one in my hands that worked just to say they could, in one case this particular tour rep threw his hands up and said I give up, lets drill one of these instead! LOL
as for staff guys throwing the balls on videos they are usually the easiest guys that can throw the ball consistently and are easiest to get arranged onsite to video tape the reactions.
I would love to see the USBC throwbot throw these and do videos of exact comparisons but that would be extremely expensive I imagine.
--------------------
Billy Ray
Track Pro Staff
Owner Rays Pro Shop
At The Playdium
"Let Us Help You Become More Competitive"
Post by: MC on July 16, 2009, 01:41:40 PM
quote:
As a side note being a staff player for multiple years with a few different companies I can honestly say this. There have been balls I have drilled that no matter what the layouts or surface I couldn't make certain balls look good.
Sometimes you just don't match up with a particular core/cover combo.
All good points, Billy Ray.
Xcessive Evil: I am not employeed or have any affiliation with Track or Ebonite. I just offered to do the videos, since there has been such an desire on here to see videos. Figs was nice enough to agree and send me the balls. The rest is up to me. He has told me nothing to put in the video nor keep out of the video. As for the compairing of this line vs. the old lines that will not happen as I do not have any of those balls. Sorry. They will be on a THS, as that is what I typically bowl on. At some point I would like to do the PBA patterns but that will not be this video.
--------------------
"Don't Give Up... Don't Ever Give Up." -Jim Valvano
"Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence." -Vince Lombardi
VISIONARY TEST STAFF 07/08
Tag Team Coaching success story www.visionarybowling.com
Post by: louf846 on July 16, 2009, 01:45:44 PM
Seeing different they read the midland and react to friction is what will impress most of the viewers.
--------------------
Louis Franzetti
Track Regional Staff Member
Post by: Billy Ray on July 16, 2009, 02:23:20 PM
quote:
THS is a good idea. Like BK said, most of the bowlers won't be bowling on a PBA shot so what does it matter how the roll on them.
Seeing different they read the midland and react to friction is what will impress most of the viewers.
--------------------
Louis Franzetti
Track Regional Staff Member
I agree with Lou on this one besides I know for a fact that my THS is way different than yours! LOL
--------------------
Billy Ray
Track Pro Staff
Owner Rays Pro Shop
At The Playdium
"Let Us Help You Become More Competitive"
Post by: Xcessive_Evil on July 16, 2009, 10:15:33 PM
--------------------
You may be the better bowler, but my car would blow the doors off of yours.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v690/Phoenix_RsX/Arsenal/
Post by: Kid Jete on July 16, 2009, 10:31:00 PM
quote:
Guys,
Toward the end of my time of being on staff, some of you may remember that I took 3 different balls, stayed on the same line to show their strengths and weaknesses (they all didn't strike).
Who would like to see this again? I agree with Lou, videos just striking at will do very little for me. I'm more concerned with the differences from one piece to another to utilize their potential accordingly.
For those who understand speed to rev ratio, these videos are almost useless. I'd rather see one ball hook on a certain line and one not hook. If everything just hooked, why would you need the other 2? haha...
Please, just common sense...
If you guys agree, I will ask the man (FIG) permission to do this and then it will be done so long as he agrees. You guys vote or speak up...thanks.
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder
"El" Presidente of the Legion
Edited on 7/15/2009 5:36 PM
I told Briton to do this a million times but apparently the guys doing the videos are more worried about showing flush shots than actual comparative information. It would be much easier to see the difference in reaction shape and strength if all the balls were first thrown on the exactly same line and THEN thrown on the line they are intended for.
Post by: VideoBallReviews on July 17, 2009, 05:16:46 AM
quote:quote:
Guys,
Toward the end of my time of being on staff, some of you may remember that I took 3 different balls, stayed on the same line to show their strengths and weaknesses (they all didn't strike).
Who would like to see this again? I agree with Lou, videos just striking at will do very little for me. I'm more concerned with the differences from one piece to another to utilize their potential accordingly.
For those who understand speed to rev ratio, these videos are almost useless. I'd rather see one ball hook on a certain line and one not hook. If everything just hooked, why would you need the other 2? haha...
Please, just common sense...
If you guys agree, I will ask the man (FIG) permission to do this and then it will be done so long as he agrees. You guys vote or speak up...thanks.
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder
"El" Presidente of the Legion
Edited on 7/15/2009 5:36 PM
I told Briton to do this a million times but apparently the guys doing the videos are more worried about showing flush shots than actual comparative information. It would be much easier to see the difference in reaction shape and strength if all the balls were first thrown on the exactly same line and THEN thrown on the line they are intended for.
I agree, this is a good idea but there are a few things that make it hard to do.
One thing to remember is this site represents a small population of the bowling world that has decided to take that next step and educate themselves in one way or another. We are not the majority by any means. With this in mind, when you compare two balls on the same line one ball inevitably looks weaker downlane...weaker downlane to the average league bowler means weaker overall, which again usually means "i dont want that ball, i want the stronger one"...this is usually why inter-company comparisons are not done, even if both balls are shown striking from different lines, one may not be covering as many boards doing it...again to you and me thats not a bad thing, but to the avg league bowler who wants to have the biggest hooking ball possible, it makes one company look inferior than another.
When i was doing videos for all the brands, one time i had a lower to mid price ball out hooking a high end piece in a video comparison, the brand manager (who will remain nameless) said we can't show this...we cant show a $130 ball covering more lane than a $180 ball even if that is the case...
the other potential flaw with doing videos like this, is that it must be done on a flatter pattern...if you do this on the house china, usually you will blend reactions so bad you may end up throwing the same with two completely different balls
Just my two cents...good luck with the track videos mike
--------------------
Britton
Owner/Operator of Videoballreviews.com (http://"http://www.videoballreviews.com")
Multi Media Consultant
Storm Products, Inc.
www.stormbowling.com (http://"http://www.stormbowling.com")
www.rotogrip.com (http://"http://www.rotogrip.com")
Edited on 7/17/2009 5:18 AM
Post by: MC on July 17, 2009, 06:59:50 AM
--------------------
"Don't Give Up... Don't Ever Give Up." -Jim Valvano
"Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence." -Vince Lombardi
VISIONARY TEST STAFF 07/08
Tag Team Coaching success story www.visionarybowling.com
Post by: solid9proshop on July 17, 2009, 09:03:56 AM
www.stormbowing.com
www.viseinserts.com GET IT
--------------------
Greatness starts at the Pro Shop, there are no bad balls just bad ball drillers!!!
www.solid9proshop.com
VIP Storm Pro Shop
Post by: Chief BK on July 17, 2009, 10:31:44 AM
If it's a single ball vid, put down the great wall that 90% of the free world's bowlers see and let it fly!
--------------------
Track Staff Member
GM of Blue Ball Lanes - Blue Ball, PA
-Practice doesn't make perfect. Practice makes champions!
Post by: DanR on July 17, 2009, 01:17:32 PM
Good idea on shotting the videos on conditions other then THS. So when are you going to start this on your videos?
Post by: VideoBallReviews on July 17, 2009, 01:32:19 PM
quote:
Britton
Good idea on shotting the videos on conditions other then THS. So when are you going to start this on your videos?
DanR, or should i call you Slumpbuster? Do you guys just sit and wait for me to post on this site to make some smart comment about my videos?
I have done plenty of videos not on a THS...in fact so this relates to the original post, i did a few track videos on sport shots
http://www.videoballreviews.com/kineticpearl.html
http://www.videoballreviews.com/uprising.html
etc, etc...
So give it a rest...I love my "fans"
--------------------
Britton
Owner/Operator of Videoballreviews.com (http://"http://www.videoballreviews.com")
Multi Media Consultant
Storm Products, Inc.
www.stormbowling.com (http://"http://www.stormbowling.com")
www.rotogrip.com (http://"http://www.rotogrip.com")
Post by: Mark T. Trgovac on July 18, 2009, 02:45:52 AM
quote:quote:quote:
Guys,
Toward the end of my time of being on staff, some of you may remember that I took 3 different balls, stayed on the same line to show their strengths and weaknesses (they all didn't strike).
Who would like to see this again? I agree with Lou, videos just striking at will do very little for me. I'm more concerned with the differences from one piece to another to utilize their potential accordingly.
For those who understand speed to rev ratio, these videos are almost useless. I'd rather see one ball hook on a certain line and one not hook. If everything just hooked, why would you need the other 2? haha...
Please, just common sense...
If you guys agree, I will ask the man (FIG) permission to do this and then it will be done so long as he agrees. You guys vote or speak up...thanks.
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder
"El" Presidente of the Legion
Edited on 7/15/2009 5:36 PM
I told Briton to do this a million times but apparently the guys doing the videos are more worried about showing flush shots than actual comparative information. It would be much easier to see the difference in reaction shape and strength if all the balls were first thrown on the exactly same line and THEN thrown on the line they are intended for.
I agree, this is a good idea but there are a few things that make it hard to do.
One thing to remember is this site represents a small population of the bowling world that has decided to take that next step and educate themselves in one way or another. We are not the majority by any means. With this in mind, when you compare two balls on the same line one ball inevitably looks weaker downlane...weaker downlane to the average league bowler means weaker overall, which again usually means "i dont want that ball, i want the stronger one"...this is usually why inter-company comparisons are not done, even if both balls are shown striking from different lines, one may not be covering as many boards doing it...again to you and me thats not a bad thing, but to the avg league bowler who wants to have the biggest hooking ball possible, it makes one company look inferior than another.
When i was doing videos for all the brands, one time i had a lower to mid price ball out hooking a high end piece in a video comparison, the brand manager (who will remain nameless) said we can't show this...we cant show a $130 ball covering more lane than a $180 ball even if that is the case...
the other potential flaw with doing videos like this, is that it must be done on a flatter pattern...if you do this on the house china, usually you will blend reactions so bad you may end up throwing the same with two completely different balls
Just my two cents...good luck with the track videos mike
--------------------
Britton
Owner/Operator of Videoballreviews.com (http://"http://www.videoballreviews.com")
Multi Media Consultant
Storm Products, Inc.
www.stormbowling.com (http://"http://www.stormbowling.com")
www.rotogrip.com (http://"http://www.rotogrip.com")
Edited on 7/17/2009 5:18 AM
I agree with some of what is stated here. For one if you use a THS when doing a video like Rick said you get to much blend. I saw this happen when I did my rule comparision video way back when. I Hope you guys remember what I am talking about. If not I will see if I can find it on my old computer and upload it back onto the net. When I took video of the balls on THS, nothing looked good. I had the Rule outhooking the GP2 when I played in the track area. This was because with my rev rate the GP2 hit the lane and just rolled out and went straight. So I went and took the old mop down the right side of the lane for 40 feet to help give the pattern a more flat oil pattern look. Anyone who seen the video knows how it came out. I took each ball up the track area. For the most part up 8 out to 5. The next set was me throwing the balls from a somewhat iinside shot to show them all from inside. What you seen was the balls reaction from that. Then I showed each ball on its ideal line. However to do this I had to flatten out the pattern.
Now some things that help to make these videos easier, is to:
1. Make sure all the balls you are going to use have the same layout.
2. Use a THS and a flat pattern. This will show you how much a THS can blen the balls together. Yet the flat pattern will show you the true nature of the balls. I feel both are needed, to help show everyone that even if you are on THS we all have had those nights when the machine put down to much.
3. On a THS use someone close to a everyday Joe Blow bowler. On flat use the close to pro bowler. This way you get to see the more accurate bowler on the harder shot.
--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Youngstown, Ohio
Track Live Chat Tech Support
Track HITMAN.
Tag Team Coaching Success Story.
http://www.c-gproshop.com/
Post by: tenpinspro on July 18, 2009, 08:10:47 PM
I could picture lining up with the GP2 and getting to the pocket for a strike (so long as there is enough oil). Power Machine could maybe hit lite but would be light majority of the time and Xception should come up even shorter in total reaction. This to me is how I show the strength of a cover and core.
Now I move right to get the Power Machine up to the pocket, GP should go high and Xception is or should still be weak to light.
Move again now for the Xception to hit pocket and both GP and Power should be high to brooklyn.
I understand what Brit is saying about certain medium pieces being able to outhook high performance pieces (in total movement) but this is due to the condition (amount of oil present) and the line played on that condition. If we just stood left (using center oil) and threw balls right (into the dry), then yes, whichever piece which can store more energy will make a more severe/violent movement once it encounters friction.
I also use the oil line or dry earlier because I also feel the majority of Joe Bowlers is more of a down and in player. Even as the percentage of "power" tweeners is growing with the newer generations of bowlers, down and in or slight swing bowlers still are in the majority. Hence my reasoning for making vids up and against an oil line vs just standing left and throwing right.
Analogy time...Let's take a racing slick/bald tire, all season, snow tire and a set of chains. We have 4 different types of friction /traction capabilities but only when it rains do we see the racing slick slip or slide. Now only in "x" amount of snow do we see the difference from an all season tire to a snow tire and then only in heavy snow or very slick conditions do we see separation between the snow tire and chains.
Okay, what this means is that not until we place each of the different types of traction we have on the "proper" surface for it to shine, we don't always necessarily see differences in their strengths to weaknesses. Again, my reasoning as to why I use the proper oil line for each piece to be able to show this separation. Hope this helps explain some...
Brit, not knocking you here bro. I feel you do a great job and even just doing what vids I used to do for Track took a lot of time and effort many don't realize. Keep up the good work....
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder
"El" Presidente of the Legion
Post by: Kid Jete on July 19, 2009, 12:54:08 AM
Post by: six pack on July 19, 2009, 08:12:00 AM
--------------------
The harder I try the harder they fall