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Equipment Boards => Track => Topic started by: dw23 on November 15, 2005, 09:29:11 AM

Title: What do you think about arsenal suggestions from Track staffers?
Post by: dw23 on November 15, 2005, 09:29:11 AM
I think there should be a page on the Track website where the Pro and Amateur staffers describe what balls they use on a particular condition along with the layout. They should update it as there ideas change or a new ball is released that may take the place of something they currently use. This may help most bowlers that can identify with a particular staffers style to determine which new ball to buy and how to lay it out.

Just a thought.
DW
Title: Re: What do you think about arsenal suggestions from Track staffers?
Post by: tenpinspro on November 16, 2005, 05:00:12 AM
I agree DW, great idea.  I'd also add a video in there, seeing is so much different then it just being in black and white.  That's why I've been trying to add vids to my reviews, I think it makes a big difference to the interested parties.
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Track Intl. - Amateur/Pro Shop Staff  
Vise Inserts Staff
www.Trackbowling.com
www.startabowlingrevolution.com

*El Presidente of the Track Revolution
Title: Re: What do you think about arsenal suggestions from Track staffers?
Post by: onlybowling on November 16, 2005, 05:05:35 AM
Very big YES.
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OnlyBowling
Title: Re: What do you think about arsenal suggestions from Track staffers?
Post by: clintdaley on November 16, 2005, 06:44:20 AM
It is much easier to visualize than to try to determine what someone is saying without seeing it. That is why I say many times over on here that your local guy needs to help you as well for that very reason, we can't see everything you are doing, just going off of what everyone says.

Great idea!

Clint
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Clint Daley-Owner
Lets Go Bowling Daley
Inside Hunt Club Lanes
Salem, Ohio 44460
TRACK ADVISORY PRO SHOP STAFF

http://www.trackbowling.com/

http://www.startabowlingrevolution.com/
Title: Re: What do you think about arsenal suggestions from Track staffers?
Post by: Mitch Beasley on November 16, 2005, 10:30:17 AM
It would be nice to have that on the site. I need to post some vids of me so people can see how I throw the ball and the reactions I get from drill patterns.
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Southwest Region PBA
Track Pro Staff
Beasley pro shop
Title: Re: What do you think about arsenal suggestions from Track staffers?
Post by: dave300 on November 16, 2005, 10:39:15 AM
Hey Mitch,  that would be awesome. A few friends of mine bowl in the SW region and I hear you have the talent to win a tour title!!!
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It's not how??? It's how many!!!
Title: Re: What do you think about arsenal suggestions from Track staffers?
Post by: duvallite on November 16, 2005, 10:49:17 AM
I've got to agree, that is a good idea.  It would be very useful to a lot of us when we're considering a new ball or drilling.
Title: Re: What do you think about arsenal suggestions from Track staffers?
Post by: shelley on November 16, 2005, 11:19:15 AM
Track used to have a few videos up on their site comparing different balls.  The vids weren't of their pro staffers, though.

I really liked the comparison between the Freak and the Phenom, showing just how much stronger the Phenom was for a given shot.  A friend of mine has both of those balls (though they're not drilled the same so comparisons are less significant), so I thought it was neat to see how they really stacked up.

SH
Title: Re: What do you think about arsenal suggestions from Track staffers?
Post by: dw23 on November 16, 2005, 11:29:43 AM
Video would be great. There would have to be explanation of the pattern they were bowling on but I totally agree.

I'll try to post some video soon myself. I'll edit out the times I hit the scoring monitors with my backswing.

DW
Title: Re: What do you think about arsenal suggestions from Track staffers?
Post by: chitown on November 16, 2005, 12:16:16 PM
Guys I agree that would be very helpful to many bowlers.  I know that I would like to see and hear your guys theory's on which ball would work for a particular pattern.

Another thing that I feel would be great is to describe what you guys feel is the best way to play a particular pattern.
Title: Re: What do you think about arsenal suggestions from Track staffers?
Post by: Ramtart on November 16, 2005, 04:49:22 PM
I think those type of videos would be awesome. I remember seeing some with Del Warren and Bill Monce (Sp?). I believe they were for the Phenom Unleashed and I think the Phenom.

So far I've done videos for all of my Track Balls. Maybe I can help out and repost them here again with details of the lane conditions and type of lane surface as well.

Peace,
Ramilli Vanilli
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Pedro: If you vote for me, all of your wildest dreams will come true. Napoleon Dynamite
Title: Re: What do you think about arsenal suggestions from Track staffers?
Post by: chitown on November 16, 2005, 07:47:41 PM
Guys any type of help with vids would be awesome.  I know for me that I can't learn enough about the different oil patterns.

I bowl on a Sunday morning league.  This league was supposed to use 4 different patterns through out the season and change the pattern every 4 weeks.  Well last week was supposed to be week 3 of this particular pattern.  I get to the lanes during practice and the pattern is completely different.  I ask the president of the league what was up.  I explained about the 4 patterns every 4 weeks.  He told me that I was misinformed.  He said they will be using 11 different patterns and can be switched from week to week.  This is awesome.  He said they decided to do this because some bowlers excel on certain patterns and this will level the field.

So to make a long story short any help that you guys can give would be great.  One important thing would be to learn how to read the pattern.
Title: Re: What do you think about arsenal suggestions from Track staffers?
Post by: O-Zone on November 16, 2005, 08:28:39 PM
Admittedly, I haven't thought this out completely before posting it...but, two things stand out to me as being important in "reading the pattern"-

1)  Being in the right position with the right ball speed, coverstock, core, drilling...to be able to give yourself the most area to "miss" as possible.  If you're bowling on tougher patterns for your league, this is crucial to having high scores week in and week out.  No bowler is perfect.  If you can give yourself the best matchup to the lane/condition possible from the equipment and physical game you have, then it's going to be relatively easier to score.

2)  Being able to understand what you have to change based on the ball reaction you're getting.  This goes along with my first concept:  are you giving yourself the most area possible to make a mistake?  Is your ball getting into a roll before it hits the pins?  Is it rolling out before it gets to the pins?  Are you watching the players around you and learning from their success/failure?  When you get a bad result, is it because you made a mistake, or is the pattern changing?

(A third idea that I decided not to explicitly mention in reading a pattern is that you MUST have confidence in yourself.  You have to believe that you can execute the shot that you're about to throw.  Your opponent isn't going to have confidence in you..that's something you need to take care of yourself.  Believe in the judgements you're making on what you're bowling on, and make adjustments with conviction.  If you're wrong, you can learn from that and incorporate it in the future...but never lose conviction in what you're doing.)




Just to hit on a couple of previous ideas-

-Yes, I'd love to see some videos!  I hope to have some time in the future to put up a few of myself....but I'd love to see some from the "real" pros!

-It's hard to classify what works on a given pattern...you can say what works on a pattern with certain qualifiers, but it's tough to say that on Cheetah on all surfaces with all volumes, the Heat will work...I think it's REALLY important that the public understands that what works for certain players on certain conditions under certain circumstances might not apply to other players...

Hope this rambling reply helps a little!
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Jeff Voght
PBA Eastern Region Member
Title: Re: What do you think about arsenal suggestions from Track staffers?
Post by: chitown on November 16, 2005, 09:07:53 PM
O-zone, thanks for the info.  I will give it a try (try to find the most miss area).  I have never taking that approach.  I changed my bowling style a lot this past season and I feel it's for the better.  I will never turn down info that I feel can give me the edge.  So with that being said thanks for the info I appreciate it.
Title: Re: What do you think about arsenal suggestions from Track staffers?
Post by: tenpinspro on November 17, 2005, 04:04:58 AM
Very good "rambling" there Jeff.  You are exactly correct on the finding your "miss area" on the lane.  The old way was to always lean up against the oil line to find your tug room but now the oils have gotten so much thicker, we have to circle around the oil today to the dry and back (describing THS) to carry.  Leaning up too long against a heavy oil line can cause for deflection which usually result in solid 10's.
 
Just to help substantiate what you just mentioned, I just watched the PBA show from 2 weeks ago where Tommy Jones was bowling against Wes Malott.  They were both going out to the 1-2 board at the break "area" (my new term) and on one shot TJ tugged one to where it only got out to about 5-6 and it still held and smashed the pocket.  He missed it by about 4 boards and still struck...area, guys...it's all about creating area.  I also now personally use the a new term vs "break point" in the shop and during coaching, I call it the "break area" because the ball can and will hook from an "area" downlane.  Our job is to find the center of that "break area" and then we'll be lined up to have some miss room.
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Track Intl. - Amateur/Pro Shop Staff  
Vise Inserts Staff
www.Trackbowling.com
www.startabowlingrevolution.com

*El Presidente of the Track Revolution
Title: Re: What do you think about arsenal suggestions from Track staffers?
Post by: Ramtart on November 17, 2005, 08:33:25 AM
Jeff & Rick, great points there.

Jeff, you bring up points that Rick taught me during a couple of times we practiced. Both of you guys mention giving yourself the "most area to miss."
During shadow ball I was taught to not just find the "perfect line to the pocket," but find how much room I have for mistake.

-Will I hit the pocket if I play deeper than my desired strike line. (also to see if you have tug/pull mistake area)
-Will I hit the pocket if I get the ball outside of my strike line. (Sending the ball wider than its' usual path)

This is what Rick is talking about in regards to "area/break point" down lane. Find that area downlane (a.k.a Break Point) and see how much of the lane you can use to attack it.

Jeff also talks about is "Confidence." I truly believe that this is a crucial part of this process. He states, "never lose conviction of what you're doing."
This is so true. There has been 10 weeks of league so far in the Winter and during weeks 5-8 I struggled, because I didn't believe in my game and got down on myself. It's all about accepting and learning from mistakes and improving!

Thanks guys, you're always a great help!
Ramilli Vanilli
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Pedro: If you vote for me, all of your wildest dreams will come true. Napoleon Dynamite

Edited on 11/17/2005 9:25 AM
Title: Re: What do you think about arsenal suggestions from Track staffers?
Post by: chitown on November 17, 2005, 09:07:10 AM
Now this is what I like to read.  Lane play.  This will really help my game.  This gives me something to look for on my Sunday league.  Thanks guys keep it coming.
Title: Re: What do you think about arsenal suggestions from Track staffers?
Post by: Buckwild on November 17, 2005, 10:19:17 AM
As fas as this "break area" is concerned, how do you look for it during practice?
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Buck '05
Title: Re: What do you think about arsenal suggestions from Track staffers?
Post by: Ramtart on November 17, 2005, 10:58:42 AM
Hey Buckwild...

"Break Area or Break Point" is the area on the lane where your ball starts to move when encountering friction. Throw your ball several times down the lane. Concentrate on where the ball is making a "change of direction. (i.e. encountering drier boards)"

A good idea is to watch other bowlers that have the same style as you and watch where their ball is "changing direction." After doing this, try it after you roll the ball. Watch the path of the ball. Your breakpoint could be like 3/4 of the way down the lane when it starts to make its' turn or it could be earlier.

The break point or break area is also referred to as "The Spot or The Spot Downlane." You might hear Randy Pederson saying that on the telecasts on Sundays.

Check out Rick's (tenpinspro) observation from the 1st PBA telecast of the season in regards to "break spot and/or break area". If you have it taped, check it out!

quote:
Just to help substantiate what you just mentioned, I just watched the PBA show from 2 weeks ago where Tommy Jones was bowling against Wes Malott. They were both going out to the 1-2 board at the break "area" (my new term) and on one shot TJ tugged one to where it only got out to about 5-6 and it still held and smashed the pocket. He missed it by about 4 boards and still struck...area, guys...it's all about creating area. I also now personally use the a new term vs "break point" in the shop and during coaching, I call it the "break area" because the ball can and will hook from an "area" downlane. Our job is to find the center of that "break area" and then we'll be lined up to have some miss room.


Hope this helps!
M.C. Rammer
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Pedro: If you vote for me, all of your wildest dreams will come true. Napoleon Dynamite

Edited on 11/17/2005 11:57 AM
Title: Re: What do you think about arsenal suggestions from Track staffers?
Post by: dw23 on November 17, 2005, 01:02:53 PM
O-Zones warning on watching the pros and assuming the ball will work for you on that particular pattern is dead on. There's always going to be someone that thinks they throw the ball just like Chris Barnes and use every ball and drill pattern he uses but we can't stop that. I still think that most could learn a lot from observing what the pros have success with on sport patterns. They do get the best coaching, drilling instructions and access to unlimited equipment choices.

I think the most important thing is knowing what covers seem to work for them on sport patterns. The drill patterns and the cores are more relative to the bowlers style but I think covers spread over a wider range of styles. Knowing that Paul Fleming uses a Arsenal Aggressive with the out of box cover on the Scorpion pattern would give me a starting point for researching what cover may work for me on that pattern because his style and ball speed is similar to mine. His drill pattern and/or that exact ball may not carry well for me but with little tweaks an experienced ball driller could modify it to fit my style on the surface that I will be competing on.

This may not work for the novice but I think the average tournament bowler would get a lot out of this information and may even save them money in the long run.

Hope that all make sense,
DW


Edited on 11/17/2005 1:57 PM