Post by: Aloarjr810 on March 06, 2007, 12:30:48 PM
I've seen alot about it not being produced and stuff. Now I was talking with the proshop guy.
He said he got some paper from track saying they are going to produce it.
Post by: Spider Ball Bowler on March 06, 2007, 08:34:36 PM
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Formerly SGC300
Post by: shelley on March 08, 2007, 10:16:44 AM
quote:
well my dist. does not have them, yet some online dealer in las vagas has them for sale. strange?????
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the dealer in LV bought his before the distributor ran out. Or he uses a different distributor than you do. Or he bought them directly from Track, cutting out the distributor altogether. Or the distributor has conspired with the dealer in LV to keep you out of the market for this particular ball. I actually heard that the LV guy doesn't like pro shops and thinks that ball companies should sell drilled balls directly to the customer. He's secretly a front for the new Tiger Woods Bowling and Golf Supply, selling clubs that say "Made in USA" when they're really made in China. Tiger's supposedly quitting the tour so he can open a distributorship.>>><>><>
SH
Post by: jkiser01 on March 08, 2007, 10:21:47 AM
It sounds like they where not happy with the tests they performed with it..
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I think the great slump of 2006-2007 is finally coming to an end!!
Edited on 3/8/2007 11:20 AM
Post by: mrbowlingnut on March 08, 2007, 12:09:29 PM
They had meet and greets for Ebonite/Hammer, Brunswick, Storm and Columbia/Track with the PBA exempt players and promoting each brands products during the tournament. Smart business maybe someone else will get smart enough to do the same thing when a stop hits there area.
No black market just a great pro shop doing smart business thats all
Post by: Sir Bowl-A-Lot on March 08, 2007, 12:13:02 PM
quote:
well my dist. does not have them, yet some online dealer in las vagas has them for sale. strange?????
he quoted me $175 plus $20 shipping.
adam@bowlinglasvegas.com
I emailed that guy three days ago and still no reply. Oh well.
--------------------
My 06-07 Arsenal:
- FURY (1500 polished, 4 x 4)
- Cobalt BOMB Solid (box finish, 4 x 3.5)
- DOOM (box finish, label lev)
- Power Groove Dry/R (box finish, 5 x 4.5)
- Red XXXL (box finish, label lev)
- *Coming Soon* Agent (Replacement from Storm)
- *Coming Soon* Shift
For Sale/Trade:
- *NIB* 15# Brunswick Inferno (3" Pin, 3.9oz Top)
- *Like New (Only 1 Game)* 15# Vendetta Maxx (box finish, label lev)
Post by: mrbowlingnut on March 08, 2007, 12:17:34 PM
Post by: WSUstroker on March 08, 2007, 12:44:56 PM
quote:quote:
well my dist. does not have them, yet some online dealer in las vagas has them for sale. strange?????
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the dealer in LV bought his before the distributor ran out. Or he uses a different distributor than you do. Or he bought them directly from Track, cutting out the distributor altogether. Or the distributor has conspired with the dealer in LV to keep you out of the market for this particular ball. I actually heard that the LV guy doesn't like pro shops and thinks that ball companies should sell drilled balls directly to the customer. He's secretly a front for the new Tiger Woods Bowling and Golf Supply, selling clubs that say "Made in USA" when they're really made in China. Tiger's supposedly quitting the tour so he can open a distributorship.>>><>><>
SH
Is that a pot I see you stirring over there?
--------------------
Dan Chambers
www.absolutebowling.com
Post by: mrbowlingnut on March 08, 2007, 12:54:52 PM
Guys like you drove off poor Ron Hickland and screw it up for the rest of us, thanks buddy if you come to bowl expo i would love to meet you and see if you are that nuts in real life.
quote:quote:
Bowlinglasvegas.com is one the largest Columbia/Track dealers in the world, they had all of the balls ordered on the fast track program. They had a large preorder setup with the PBA stop that came to town and was running a special on them at the same time. Is there something wrong with setting up a meet and greet and promoting the product at the same time???
They had meet and greets for Ebonite/Hammer, Brunswick, Storm and Columbia/Track with the PBA exempt players and promoting each brands products during the tournament. Smart business maybe someone else will get smart enough to do the same thing when a stop hits there area.
No black market just a great pro shop doing smart business thats all
please>>>>> where do you come up with this stuff. more then likely then got some due to the fact that a pba tour stop was in town. my dist. knows of them. most of the LARGEST dist. in the business, did not receive any phoenix balls. and they had boo koo of them pre sold!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and that's a lot.
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jls31316
Post by: DukeHarding on March 08, 2007, 12:57:07 PM
quote:
Ebonite sent a memo to my pro shop guy (and I am sure alot of other pro shops)and it stated they had tested the Phoenix and decided not to release it as it was being marketed, that being a high performance ball..
It sounds like they where not happy with the tests they performed with it..
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I think the great slump of 2006-2007 is finally coming to an end!!
Edited on 3/8/2007 11:20 AM
I was talking to a pro shop guy, and he said the ball is a dud, and Ebo was not interested in it.
This is just 2nd hand info....take it for what it's worth.
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Duke Harding
www.dukeharding.com
"They say, Duke Harding has nice balls."
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Post by: jls on March 08, 2007, 01:09:52 PM
as you said, they probably got the balls from the pba tour stop. no problem with that. and no problem with them trying to sell them.
as for them being the wal mart of bowling, please, give it a rest.
i talked with my dist. and they filled me in on them. so please, stop trying to act like your mr bowling.
and as for ron running an hiding. so sad to bad. i had nothing to do with that.
as i remember, there were many with questions on the inf. one. and ron was telling all that it would go long. and many real pro shops did not believe it. and had the nerve to question mr ron.
well guess what mr nut. it did not go long!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
gee. maybe it was that 500 pad finish. you think!!!!!
so get off your high horsy. and grow up. just because real pro shops don't always believe that pigs can fly>>>> does not make us stupid.
and the first review on the ball was from a pba stffer who said, the ball checked up early { in the 500 box finish } and he adjusted the cover with polish to get the length he desired.
so excuse us real pro shops for daring to question mr ron. you know the guy that said the ball will go long in the box finish.
ok wonder boy.
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jls31316
Post by: jkiser01 on March 08, 2007, 01:24:58 PM
I totally agree with you... I just think ebonite did not want the consumers mad at them for putting out a ball that they did not feel met thier standards.. I see nothing wrong with that..
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I think the great slump of 2006-2007 is finally coming to an end!!
Post by: shelley on March 08, 2007, 01:25:05 PM
quote:
Is that a pot I see you stirring over there?
Puh-lease, that pot practically stirs itself. All we need now is for Chad to make his comments.
SH
Post by: shelley on March 08, 2007, 01:30:21 PM
quote:
How can I get in contact with your proshop, jls?
That was for you, shelley.
Better to say something like "Tiger Woods would never do that, he's probably just resting at home after his great second uncle passed away."
SH
Post by: jls on March 08, 2007, 01:41:20 PM
the police station is just 4 blocks away.
hi chad, how you doing today?
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jls31316
Post by: shelley on March 08, 2007, 01:41:41 PM
quote:
we can't run and hide!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
...
kinda the way the NEW EBONITE DRILL SHEETS FOUND IN THE TNV SAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
...
they did before???????????????????????
...
hook in oil for most bowlers. <<<< in there box finish.
...
and open a pro shop. after all>>>> your an expert in your mind.
This is the new and improved jls, now with 25% more exclamation points and question marks, but 80% fewer less-than and greater-than signs.
SH
Post by: jls on March 08, 2007, 01:44:22 PM
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jls31316
Post by: shelley on March 08, 2007, 01:45:52 PM
quote:
shelly, to much salt in your diet today?
Just<<>><feeling!!!!goofy???
SH <<<<<<<
Post by: dw23 on March 08, 2007, 02:14:07 PM
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Track User Since 1995 (Exclusively)
Post by: mrbowlingnut on March 08, 2007, 02:15:52 PM
I am no expert like you claim to be, what i find funny if they have a drill press and call themselves a pro shop they meaning you think they are gods to bowling and no one else knows anything. There are more worthless pro shops out there than there are guys that worth the money they are paid to drill holes in a ball.
No i am way to smart than to think if i can drill a hole in a ball, that i know everything like you claim too. So go practice drilling your holes and then plug them with something ok???
so if it makes you feel better to attack. be my guess. cause talk is cheap.
and you probably don't have the guts to put your money where your big mouth is, and open a pro shop. after all>>>> your an expert in your mind.
now back to surfing the net in your underwear while drinking coffee.
so mr high horse bowl nut case. if you think your so smart, why not open a pro shop for yourself. talk is cheap.
Post by: jls on March 08, 2007, 02:44:56 PM
quote:quote:
shelly, to much salt in your diet today?
Just<<>><feeling!!!!goofy???
SH <<<<<<<
I THOUGHT SO, i know your a ok type of guy.
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jls31316
Post by: qstick777 on March 08, 2007, 05:08:07 PM
I tried sitting around in my underwear surfing the net, but my boss didn't like it. He said if I wanted to do that to go home and never come back. He said if I ever did it again that he would call the cops, and the police station is only 4 blocks away.
I told him "sorry sir, notice I said sir, I didn't mean to offend anybody." He called me a geek and told me to go to Starbucks. I think he's been secretly watching my surfing habits. Did I mention that the police station is only 4 blocks away?
I wish I could get Ron to respond to my e-mails. I sent him an e-mail about all the tech documents on Ebonite's site that refer to pictures and figures, but none of them have any pictures or figures.....makes it hard to see what they are talking about!
Oh, and to make sure I stay on topic, Phil said that there were around 1500 Phoenix in stock at the time of the buyout and over 5000 orders. Ebonite canceled it. With such a low quantity available, how would you expect there to be a high demand for the ball? If nobody sees the ball, how will they know whether they want to buy it or not?
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Post by: jls on March 08, 2007, 05:26:38 PM
phone number vote.
keep up the good work.
love that part about the police station being 4 blocks away.
ps
don't mean to complain>>> but you kinda sorta forget "tiger"
now chad has feelings too you know.
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jls31316
Edited on 3/8/2007 6:28 PM
Post by: Xfest on March 08, 2007, 07:28:08 PM
And if it were really a great ball, I am sure Wes Malott would be throwing it.
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"Do you NV me?"
Ebonite Total NV 
Ebonite Angular One
Hammer Black Widow 
Ebonite Smash Time Pearl"Ey, Yo Crank! What ball was that?"
Post by: REVerse on March 08, 2007, 07:48:19 PM
quote:
They are both good balls so Ebonite not making can only be attributed to not wanting competition for their recently released balls. I can totally understand that. I don't like it but I understand it.
Thought about that too -BUT- Ebonite owns Hammer. Hammer has the Black Widow and No Mercy. Both balls are as good,if not better,than any hi-performance ball from Ebonite. The competition exists. Go figure...
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Ray
"SUPPORT A PRO SHOP OF YOUR CHOICE"
Post by: qstick777 on March 08, 2007, 08:52:27 PM
quote:quote:
They are both good balls so Ebonite not making can only be attributed to not wanting competition for their recently released balls. I can totally understand that. I don't like it but I understand it.
Thought about that too -BUT- Ebonite owns Hammer. Hammer has the Black Widow and No Mercy. Both balls are as good,if not better,than any hi-performance ball from Ebonite. The competition exists. Go figure...
--------------------
Ray
"SUPPORT A PRO SHOP OF YOUR CHOICE"
We can speculate all we want.
Ebonite won't make the ball because:
it sucks and isn't any good;
it's so damn good that it will make anything from Ebonite and Hammer look like crap;
the core is too difficult for Ebonite to make - they don't have the equipment in Hopkinsville to make the core;
the coverstock is not something that Ebonite can reliably reproduce;
it didn't pass the drop test;
Ebonite doesn't want to submit all the paperwork to have the ball (and all other Columbia, Track, and Dyno-thane balls) approved by USBC;
somebody in Ebonite is from Arizona and had a bad experience in Phoenix once;
As a coffee drinking, internet surfing while in my underwear, Golf Channel watching, Tiger Woods Nike shoe wearing, geek, I only know one thing - Ebonite isn't making the ball!
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Post by: jls on March 09, 2007, 08:28:56 AM
i believe most do, ebonite may also. however ebonite does some in house tweaking to their coverstock's. where as columbia does not.
therefore it would not be the exact same coverstock on re order's. once the current made phoenix or big shots would run out. ebonite would have to use their version. thus a possible different reaction from the ball.
this could be good or bad. but if people were expecting the same, then a problem may be there.
i think if this is the reason, then ebonite is SMART for not doing this.
i am sure ebonite will in time come out with top line model balls with the track and columbia name on them, using a pure ebonite coverstock.
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jls31316
Post by: newguy on March 09, 2007, 08:49:23 AM
Ebonite does not have the formulas to the existing coverstocks but could purchase it exactly as it was blended from BASF if they wanted to. They simply chose not to, they could have taken the high road on why they did not wish to launch the ball by simply stating that they purchased the brands and plan on taking a different direction regarding performance. Instead they chose to use several different excuses and directions as to why they did not want to release the balls. Performance, durability, USBC approval and on and on. NO would have been the perfect answer and one we all would have to accept.
Post by: BBR-Bill on March 09, 2007, 08:56:48 AM
There is a reason the Columbia300/Track/Dyno-thane sold out. If they were selling balls and doing good then wouldn't wanted to sell off the company.
It is sad when a few people chirp in to make Columbia sound like they were making the best balls on the market. I saw two Equations that were drilled and the nugget was hit 1 3/4 inches into the ball on both balls. I have also seen this Phoenix thrown, and I also threw some shots with the ball, it was no Inferno, that is for sure.
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Thanks,
Bill
BowlingBallReviews.com
Post by: jls on March 09, 2007, 08:59:14 AM
quote:
Columbia was exclusive with BASF Ebonite has their exclusive agreements and Bruswick has theirs with Mobay (bayer)
Ebonite does not have the formulas to the existing coverstocks but could purchase it exactly as it was blended from BASF if they wanted to. They simply chose not to, they could have taken the high road on why they did not wish to launch the ball by simply stating that they purchased the brands and plan on taking a different direction regarding performance. Instead they chose to use several different excuses and directions as to why they did not want to release the balls. Performance, durability, USBC approval and on and on. NO would have been the perfect answer and one we all would have to accept.
THANKYOU NEWGUY, for this info. it's always nice to hear from such a reliable and good source as yourself.
especially when on more then one occasion on this site, i have been called
the fith or third grade whatever. by the coffee drinking geeks.
all along i felt that it would not be in the best interest of ebonite to try to dupilcate or simply buy { if possible } the same coverstocks used by track and columbia.
one of the main reason's for tweaking a coverstock in house is simple. you can get what you want and it usually will cost you less money to do this.
in time i am sure ebonite will come out with top line models with the columbia and track names.
deathbloon and qstick777, you guys are not geeks. you both have a good sense of humor, therefore you cannot be geeks>>>> sorry.
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jls31316
Edited on 3/12/2007 1:13 PM
Post by: dw23 on March 09, 2007, 10:18:23 AM
Well said jls31316 although a few that do not understand business will come on and dispute your comment.
Ebonite, Hammer, Columbia and Track are all doing well in Southern California. In discussions with 8 pro shop owners and a couple of distributors the company that was struggling out here was Storm. The Agent line and the Shift may be helping to change that.
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Track User Since 1995 (Exclusively)
Post by: qstick777 on March 09, 2007, 10:22:46 AM
quote:
Columbia was exclusive with BASF Ebonite has their exclusive agreements and Bruswick has theirs with Mobay (bayer)
Ebonite does not have the formulas to the existing coverstocks but could purchase it exactly as it was blended from BASF if they wanted to. They simply chose not to, they could have taken the high road on why they did not wish to launch the ball by simply stating that they purchased the brands and plan on taking a different direction regarding performance. Instead they chose to use several different excuses and directions as to why they did not want to release the balls. Performance, durability, USBC approval and on and on. NO would have been the perfect answer and one we all would have to accept.
Thanks for that.
I posted a while back about the coverstock suppliers, but have not been able to find anything about Ebonite/Hammer. Columbia was upfront about using BASF and it's easy to find out about Brunswick and Bayer.
Would you mind telling us (or giving a hint) as to who supplies the coverstock/chemicals for Ebonite?
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Post by: shelley on March 09, 2007, 10:31:26 AM
quote:
What is funny to me is that people talk on here about Eboniite/Hammer coverstocks not lasting, when Ebonite/Hammer is the top brand in the country.
C'mon, man, you know better than that. If best selling were about longevity, there'd be Dynos and Legends in every bag.
Every year there's a hot company who puts out a couple of balls that everyone seems to want. This year (and arguably last year) it's Ebonite's One series, a few years ago it was Storm X-factors and Brunswick Infernos and Zones. Last year it was Columbia Actions. Who knows what it'll be next year. That they're the top sellers in the country only says they're making a butt-load of money, not necessarily that they're long-lasting balls.
SH
Post by: shelley on March 09, 2007, 02:34:07 PM
quote:
So it would sound to me like the C300 and Track lines are going to need to be rebuilt from the ground up??
It is the end of the season, they'd be updating most of their lineups for next year in the next few months anyway. Not necessarily a big deal unless you were really jonesing for some of the current equipment.
SH
Post by: qstick777 on March 09, 2007, 04:57:33 PM
quote:quote:
Columbia was exclusive with BASF Ebonite has their exclusive agreements and Bruswick has theirs with Mobay (bayer)
Ebonite does not have the formulas to the existing coverstocks but could purchase it exactly as it was blended from BASF if they wanted to. They simply chose not to, they could have taken the high road on why they did not wish to launch the ball by simply stating that they purchased the brands and plan on taking a different direction regarding performance. Instead they chose to use several different excuses and directions as to why they did not want to release the balls. Performance, durability, USBC approval and on and on. NO would have been the perfect answer and one we all would have to accept.
If Ebonite does not have the formulas to the existing coverstocks, then we are not going to see the same balls we had, Action series, Power machine, Hyjinx, etc. They may put the balls out, but without the same formula coverstocks they would not be the same balls we are used to. So it would sound to me like the C300 and Track lines are going to need to be rebuilt from the ground up?? Sounds very interesting, we will just have to wait to see the people they hire and the business directions they take with the individual brands.
They were pretty much done with those lines anyways.....how many more Actions and Machines do you think they were going to make?
Since they have to resubmit all balls for approval, they might as well start all over again. I can't say if that is a good or bad thing, just different.
Without knowing how many Columbia/Track/DT people are being kept, we may see similar ball designs or something completely different...all depends on the designers/engineers.
You are correct....without the same coverstock formulas and cores, we will not see the same products.
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Post by: Juggernaut on March 10, 2007, 03:30:58 PM
quote:
somebody in Ebonite is from Arizona and had a bad experience in Phoenix once;
Best reason yet.
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"TOO SOON THE POWER, TOO LATE THE WISDOM"