I already told you how I feel about the situation and what is acceptable and not acceptable with team play.    I don't need to type it over and over again.  Its right there in front of you to read.  It doesn't correspond to your own opinion and so be it.  That is fine with me.    We disagree and that is ok.

This whole USBC tournament is a joke as it is and until they bring pure shot making back and eliminate the bowling balls that morph the pattern this is nothing but a smoke and mirror attempt at creating a "sport". 

If a pattern gets so morphed beyond recognition that people can't bowl where they want to bowl on the lane within reason than this whole entire game is a joke and not a sport.   When the own governing body suggests and promotes taking your bowling ball and creating mistake room there is something seriously wrong with this game.   This is not a sport when the governing body teaches and promotes ways to make the lanes "easier"  and those who don't fall into line with doing that are ridiculed by their own team for doing so.

If this is the game you guys want to play,  have at it.  It's not a sport and it sure isn't a test of bowling ability when its so blatantly promoted on how you can make the lanes "easier" with your very own bowling ball in PRACTICE,  not even actual score play. 

Come on now, when the powers that be promote bringing a ball that your not even going to use in scoring play to manipulate the lanes there is a serious problem.   Practice should never be about changing the oil pattern to suit your needs.  That is horse play.  Just bring a ball with a bunch of surface that your not going to use for score and trash the pattern that was designed to be a challenge.  Let's design oil patterns that are a challenge than then promote ways that people can morph the lanes with their bowling ball in practice so this challenge is now easier.

Why even design test of skill oil patterns when the coaching and promotion is ways to make lanes easier. 

Just give the ALL the bowlers the already morphed areas of the lane pre practice and lets bowl. 

I appreciate your "olive branch" but I'm not going to play this game where I have to prove you wrong for you to apologize.   There is no apology needed because this is a bowling message board to share ideas and opinions. 

The last point I'm going to make is once the lanes morph and they didn't morph the way you wanted them to, everybody has an excuse or is mad at this bowler or that bowler.  Once shot making comes into play nobody knows what to do.  If it's not drawn up on paper with graphics or game plans everybody is lost.  It's sad that the emphasis is on how to make the lanes easier so your shot making doesn't have to be perfect and it's sad that bowlers can get pissed off at other bowlers for trying their best with their best way to knock down pins but because they didn't follow the play book they get ridiculed. 

The worst thing that ever happened to this sport was the lanes got easy and everybody got "good".   The shot making went out the window and the adjustments went bye bye.   We all have become victims of this and we expect way too much scoring by pattern manipulation and strength of bowling ball. 

So if Ray Bluth, Dick Weber, Pat Patterson, Don Carter and Tom Hennessey bowled today in 2013 and let's say Ray Bluth wanted to not play the same area of the lane that the rest wanted to and made a move inside do you think the rest of the gang would of been irate and ridiculed him for making a move?

Team bowling isn't carving out lanes in PRACTICE.  Team bowling isn't purposely changing the playing surface to suit your own needs.   Team bowling is cheering on your team,  helping your team get lined up in the areas of the lane they want to play, talking about how the lanes change.   Team bowling is not purposely as a team trying to change the playing conditions to make them easier during the practice time with balls that are only to be used to morph the lanes.  It's a complete sham if you allow teams to use balls designed to change the lanes and then they put them in their bag never to see the light of day again.  That's not team bowling. 

I would like to see those 5 bowlers above, the greatest team bowlers of all time argue with themselves about who wrecked the lanes for who and so on and so forth. 

The only time bowlers bitch about others ruining the shot is when they feel that somebody inferior to their own talent level has done something to hurt their own conditions.   If the guy who moved inside and wrecked the shim was a 30 time PBA champion there would not of been a peep out of the teammates about shim wrecking.

TDC57,
     I am not trying to deny anything. It is exactly about trying to make the shot better for the team to score better. My point has always been that this is about the TEAM, not 1 individual bowler. You have to do what's best for the team to put up the best score possible. I'll pose the same thing to you I do to bowling 300 900, who never answers any questions: do you purposely play the lanes (whether THS or Sport Pattern) differently then the pattern dictates? Would you play 20-15 on Cheetah or would you play outside like it is meant to play? If you play outside, why do you do that? Because it give you the best chance to put up the best score possible. Thisis the same thing, only in this case it isn't just you, it's about everyone doing that. And the way to do that is to systematically break down the lane in order to make it easier to score better. You still have to make the shots, you still have to hit your target time after time...this isn't diminishing the skill it takes or the shot-making. Everyone, at least everyone that I have ever known, who bowls trys to find the spot on the lane that allows them to miss right a little, and miss left a little and still strike. On THS, that little could be 5 boards each way. On a Sport Pattern, it may only be 1 board.  But you look for that area. With the volume of oil at Nationals, the pattern will change drastically from the first shot throw to the last (at least in the past), and you can have that change happen at random, by having people play all over the lanes, and turn the shot into something unscorable by even the best bowlers (and if you think I am making this up, look through Riggs blog where he discusses the Minors events some years after following teams that didn't have a plan, it is also one of the reasons they went to fresh oil for Minors this year), or you can have that happen in a known pattern that allows you to score your best. Why would you choose the first one?
 
As far as defenders, there have been some in this topic, who probably left after 3 pages of this. I am stubborn though so I am still here . Also, the defense is in the proof. Look at the teams that score well, that make the top 10 and look at their interviews on bowl.com. They all talk about "following the plan". Now, granted, these are incredible bowlers, much better then I am. But if these great bowlers think this is the best way to score the best here, why would I or anyone else think they are wrong. Look at it this way, if bowlers who can split boards, the ones who wouldn't need to make the shot like a THS to score well, think this is best way to do it, why is it wrong?
 
And I do think I am usually a nice guy. I think you are probably as well. We are both passionate about our sport but see this one item differently. That is what makes this sport and this country so great.
 
And Bowling 300 900, the inherent flaw in your logic is that Ray Bluth would be smart enough to know to stick with the team plan and wouldn't move inside. So this is an epic fail. As I mentioned above, some of the best bowlers in the country who bowl in this tournament think following a plan is the way to get the best scores, so why would another set of great bowlers (if they were here) do something different? Now Weber, Bluth and those guys may not play the same area as some of today's bowlers, but they would work together. They did so when they bowled in the past. Some of that was dictated by the lanes, the oil (shellac), and the equipment. And remember, that in the past, the equipment dis alter the oil as quickly or as greatly as it does today. But the real question is are you going to answer any of the questions directed at you?

I've played Cheetah from the 4th arrow in PBA play, and I've played Shark up the 2-3 board.

Both of these times there were guys playing in and guys playing out for 8 games and nobody was moaning and groaning about the shim, pattern manipulation or any of the nonsense that goes on in TEAM BOWLING.

I play where I can strike the most...period.  If it means that I have to give up on the "team" plan than it is what it is.   I'm there to put up the biggest number I can for the TEAM by bowling to the best of MY ABILITY.  I'm not there to play cutezies with oil patterns. 

It does the team no good to force a player in a zone and have them shoot 150's while the others are shooting 220's when the said player could of moved into a spot on the lane and to shoot 190 or better.   The movement of the player in isn't going to effect the others ability to shoot 220's that much and if it does this effing game is so screwed up it's time to stop playing it and call it a sham.

Here is one last thought.  Do you really think these super teams need that much help to beat you?   Your doing them a favor by allowing them to distort the pattern to get the lanes to play easier.   You would be better off letting the lanes stay hard and have shot making since it's very possible that a player could have a bad day, be confused or just not get the job done.   The more you allow the teams to make the lanes better for themselves the above gets throw out the window.   

You want to morph the pattern to have mistake room to the right while at the same time keep everyone off the "shim" so you have mistake hold room left.   How much mistake room do you HONESTLY feel you are entitled too.   Let's move the pins closer while we are at it.   The problem here is entitlement to mistake room.  Everyone feels they are entitled to more than there should be allowed.  The answer should be zero entitlement to mistake room, and zero allowed to be created in PRACTICE with bowling balls that change the pattern.   It's one thing to change the pattern while SCORING play is going on, it's another to purposely change the playing surface during the warm up or PRACTICE time.

Maybe in team golf they should let the golf teams manicure the green some how before each team tees off so that they can get the best possible read of the greens and have the greens roll exactly to their own liking.   

What "real" sport lets you purposely deface and manipulate the playing surface before score is even counted?   

This wasn't much of a factor when you only had 2 balls on each lane to warm up.  Everyone moaned about that since you need more than 2 balls to warm up the muscles and it would be better for the older guys physically.

So the USBC gave in and allowed a warm up time.

Than bowlers figured out a way take advantage of  the very thing they lobbied for (warm up than became practice bowling time) and created pattern carving to suit their own needs.

The USBC with no back bone said fine let's promote this as TEAM BOWLING.

Pattern carving and team bowling is only a by product of bowling teams trying to take advantage of something that they wanted and was supposed to be for the well being and health of the bowlers.   


END OF STORY. 

Bowling 300 900,
     If a player goes from shooting 190's to 150's because they moved right and played where the team is, sounds like an issue for that player, not the team. I guess that player isn't as good as he thinks he is then.
 
Also, as I mentioned before, yet you ignored twice now. One player can have a major impact on the oil. During a coaching session with Bill Hall at Baton Rouge on the Showcase Lanes, one of the things he does is near the end of your session is he walks you down to the pin deck and shows you the "damage" you have done to the freshly oiled pattern. Same oil, same lanes as what the real tournament used. One bowler throwing maybe 1.5 games worth of shots and it was easy to see where the oil had disappeared, been carried down and moved left and right. You can continue to deny it, but it is a fact.
 
Again in your posts it is I, I, I, I - that is what I have taken issue with from day 1. It isn't all about you. It is about the team scoring the best. If you sacrifice 40 pins off your total score, to add 100 pins to the other 4 guys total score, that is a net 60 pin gain for team. Again, why is your money more important then the other 4 guys' money that paid just as much as you to enter that event? You feel it is fine to throw their money away in order for you to make more for you. And you wonder why I called you selfish, that is the definition of the word.

TDC57,
     As I said you 300 900, every shot down the lane changes the lane. That is what happens, that is physics. The oil will not be the same after even 1 shot. So you have 2 choices, you can allow people to play whereever they want and allow that change to happen randomly....even to the point where the lanes become unscorable. Have you ever followed teams that threw the ball everywhere, guys literally playing from 20- 5? The ball hooks at 5, and doesn't hook at 8, yet hooks again at 12. You try to move in and the ball hooks early at 15 but slides at 12 all and you have pretty much no chance to score well. They allowed the change to happen randomly. The other option is to control that breakdown in known pattern. By following a game plan you know where the hook will be.
 
The lanes will never be as easy as THS. You will never have 5-7 boards of room to either side of your mark, no matter how much you work together. Let me turn it around and ask you the reverse. Why not just make the lanes unscorable from frame 1. Oil only every 3 boards, and then leave 3 boards with no oil whatsoever. But don't do it in any pattern. Oil 15 and out 50 feet and 15 -15 30 feet. Vary the volume of oil across and down the lanes. Let the winner shoot 2900 to win team event next year. Is that real bowling??? Is that what you want??? I am not trying to argue, but I want to understand why you feel working together to make the breakdown happen in a controlled manner is so bad. I think the issue is the definition of easy. If you think it is easy to break the lanes down as a team, then why isn't everyone doing it and everyone shooting 3300-3400? Why did it take 15 years for a team to break the total record? This scenario makes the lanes easier, but it by no means makes them easy. You still need to make good shots, control your speed, and control the breakpoint in order get strikes consistently. On THS I have seen it, and I have done it, where people can vary speed by 3-4 MPH and still strike. On THS you can miss your breakpoint by 3-4 boards (if not more) and still strike. Even after 2-3 games, you still can't do that and strike at Nationals. The lanes never become EASY. And I think that is where your hang-up is.

Bowling 300 900,
      I keep saying you can't be this stupid...but you are making me think I am wrong. The goal is not to remove conditioner from the lane. That is the result of every ball thrown. EVERY ball thrown, EVERY ONE, removes conditioner from the lane or moves it in some manner down, left or right. That is physics of bowling. And your ignoring it, doesn't make any less true. The goal is to remove or move the confitioner in a controlled manner. So that you are aware of how the lanes are breaking down and you are allowing your team the best chance to score it's best. When you say things like "If you allow bowlers in PRACTICE to remove the conditioner on the lane as they see fit..." it makes me think you don't understand this game at all. Even if every bowler played a different line in practice, you will still be removing conditioner from the lane, and they are doing it as they see fit. The problem is they are doing it randomly which in the end will make the lanes much harder to score on come game 2 and game 3. I'll ask you the same thing I did TDC57, should we just start with the lanes impossibly hard to score on, oiling only every 3 boards, skipping 3 boards in some random pattern? Should they oil 15 and out 50 feet and 15 to 15 30 feet, using different volumes of oil in sections across the lanes?? This way a score of 2900 wins. And guess what, teams will still work together to be successful and they best teams to do that will still be at the top. The only difference will be the scores will be lower.
 
If you can't get 10 guys to come then you do the best that you can with 5 guys. You can talk to the team that is bowling with you in the squad room and try to get them on board. But if not, then you go with what you have. The premise is still the same. You are controlling the breakdown of the lane to the best of your abilities. And just for your information, our 10 guys came from at least 3 different states and 2 countries to bowl together. So it can be done even if you can't get 10 from your "hometown".
 
And I have never said you had to agree with me, but you can't keep spitting in the face of facts and expect me not to respond. I don't care if you agree or not, especially after you keep harping on how this is all about you. You would never bowl on my team, even in league with this kind of selfish attitude. In fact, you would probably one of the few people I have had discussions on here with that I don't think I would even like if I met you in person, your attitude sucks on here so I can't imagine it is much better in person.
 
I bowled in Syracuse in 1999 and the 2 balls per lane with the X was before minors. It was 10 mins of practice before team.

300 900,
  Ok, I guess you are that stupid. The bowling ball doesn't just start changing the pattern when scoring starts. It does it every time, now look and read carefully, EVERY TIME it goes down the lane. That's practice or scoring. Now you can have 5 guys play 5 different lines from the first shot of practice and continue that into scoring. What is going to happen when you get to game 2? The player that was in deepest, can move left into more oil and continue scoring at the pace he was in game 1. The next player moves into where Player 1 played game 1 and has a different reaction from what he had before and must find a brand new shot to the pocket. Same goes for players 3,4, and 5. So only 1 player has the same look they had in game 1, 1 out of 5 only 20% of the team. So 80% of the team has a harder shot to play in game 2, and that continues into game 3. So for 66.7% of the time, 80% of the team has a harder shot then they started with. Does sound like a winning formula to you?
 
And, I don't get your hang up with the fact that working together makes the lanes easier. Do you want them to be harder after you started? The idea is to score your best. Based on the way today's balls effect the lanes when thrown, the best way to accomplish this is to break the lanes down in a know, consistant way. Why is that wrong? Why is it wrong for a team to do it's best as a team? You still have never answered that question. And where does this entitlement mumbo jumbo come from. Who said anything about being entitled to anything. Why can't 5 or 10 players, depending on how many players you have, play the same area? Is it illegal?  I bowl on a Sport Shot league, when we have Cheetah out, everybody on our pair plays the same area....are we wrong? Are we not allowed to do that anymore? And guess what, by the 3rd and 4th game, the lanes are easier then when we started. You get a little miss room where you can move in a little and have a little tug and a little room out (not too far though thanks to that damn gutter, ) so I guess everyone on our pair are just bad people huh? In fact everyone in our league usually does it, so I guess our whole league is wrong by your account right?
 
See, your logic falls flat on it's face when presented examples outside of this setting. Sports Patterns usually require people playing in the same area. All you are doing at Nationals is taking that requirement and using it control the breakdown on the lanes, in order to allow the team to score it's best. Most people don't play a Sports pattern 5 or 10 boards different from others. And in your scenario, yes, if the team agreed to play 10 and someone goes into 15, then yes they are not a team player, I think that is quite obvious. And if I was on that team, I would express my displeasure with that bowler. Now if he discussed with his teammates and the group decided it would be ok for him to deveate from the game plan, then I have no issues with it. But to just do it so that person can score better at the possible detriment to the rest of the team, that is selfish.