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Author Topic: Art of Breaking Down a Pair to make a shot?  (Read 12728 times)

Joebowler98

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Art of Breaking Down a Pair to make a shot?
« on: February 28, 2008, 03:01:51 AM »
I have heard that many of the top teams commit to "break down their pair" to make a shot. Anyone care to share their stragedy for doing this?

 

Platinum Bowler

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Re: Art of Breaking Down a Pair to make a shot?
« Reply #61 on: March 13, 2008, 06:58:24 PM »
I really do not think that sharing your info, or writing a report of your experience on and off of the lanes at the Open, is really going to hurt yourself and help others pass you. You still have to make the right shots and decisions in order to score well, and that is where it will differ. I, for one enjoy everyone's reports, and am not just reading them to get the information, and to see where the shot it. I enjoy reading them to see how everyone did, and how they felt about the whole experience. I would love to read Riggs' annual report, with his great knowledge before I bowl, but I am pretty sure that I bowl before he and his team does. I know that I will be writing a report this year. After saying that I would write one last year, and never following up on that, I feel that I must.
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CHawk15

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Re: Art of Breaking Down a Pair to make a shot?
« Reply #62 on: March 13, 2008, 07:58:14 PM »
To add to that just a little bit, what works on 1 pair of lanes may or may not work on all the other pairs.

Joebowler98

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Re: Art of Breaking Down a Pair to make a shot?
« Reply #63 on: March 27, 2008, 03:56:33 PM »
I just got an email from Bowlingball.com and check out the article at the bottom of the newsletter. Thought it was kinda interesting on this line.

http://www.bowlingball.com/info/nl_1206634770_YpLYGZ7SYP0GpeQCFlf6V98zA1aJiB.html


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riggs

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Re: Art of Breaking Down a Pair to make a shot?
« Reply #64 on: March 27, 2008, 04:24:25 PM »
Below is a column I wrote in 2005-06 season for the Ten Pin Journal of Milwaukee (I write a monthly column for the paper). Note the ideas at the end to "fix" the problem. Also, it should be pointed out that Dick Evans wrote a column based on this column that came out wrong because I wasn't real clear in what I wrote. My "most sanded ball" at that time was a box finish Fear Factor - I did not have a "set-up ball" at 180 grit or whatever that some guys carry, which is what he thought I was referring to. Anyway, food for thought on this whole issue, which continues to be big today  on the Tour for the TV shows. Why they don't have practice on a separate pair and maybe 5 minutes on the TV pair is beyond me. Sigh.

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   If you missed last season's Denny's PBA World Championship you missed one of the all-time best blow-ups in PBA history.
   Brian Voss memorably lost his composure in losing to Chris Loschetter, at one point grabbing a camera and exclaiming, "Ban sanding bowling balls!" although his exact words were not clear at the time.
   Voss's actions caused an uproar on the PBA message boards, with some questioning his sportsmanship.
   Voss answered by explaining that Loschetter had rolled a sanded ball during most of practice up 7-9 boards toward the 3-pin, not even trying to hit the pocket. When the show started, Loschetter, who throws a much bigger hook than Voss's normal style, moved in and swung his shot toward that dried out area.
   "I don't agree with this," Voss wrote. "Unfortunately, there's no rule to prevent it. . . . Nothing against him, just the rules that allow integrity to be destroyed."
   The incident brought to the forefront a long-simmering issue that comes up in regional competition as well.
      Is it cheating to try to "set up" a lane? Does it make a difference if you do it to make your shot easier or your opponent's shot harder?
   Clearly, it is not cheating, since there's no rule defining practice. And it would be almost impossible to craft one – who is going to be the judge, and what about spare shots and changing lines and balls?
   But is it ethical?
      My aim when I compete is to win while playing within the rules. So if the rules allow me to do something that can help me win, I do it.
   I have rolled shots with the aim of "setting up" a lane – usually to help my line and once to hurt an opponents.
   "Defense" is rare because two players usually play similar lines, but I did it against close friend Jeff Carter in 2004-05 where I was playing an outside line and he was playing an inside line. He was crushing me for the second straight game in a best 3-of-5 match. So for the last few frames of the second game I went in to his area with my most sanded ball and threw shots that dried up that area.
   He then struggled the next two games and I tied the match before he finally made a major adjustment the fifth game and shot a huge game to win the match.
   Without that "defense" I probably would have lost in three straight games.
   Did I have mixed emotions? Sure. (Carter had no problem with what I did.)
   But what really bothered me is that the rules put me in that situation.
   The PBA Tour recently changed the practice rules in an effort to prevent setting up a lane.
   Prior to the change, players had 15 minutes of practice on their match play pair. That has been cut to just five minutes – so long as open pairs are available for players to loosen up before the official practice on their pairs.  
   While 15 minutes is plenty of time to use a sanded ball to dry up an area of the lane with shot after shot – or a plastic ball to carry oil down in a certain way -- five is problematic.
      The five-minute rule – which regionals will use when extra lanes are available – is a good start, but to completely eliminate "setting up" a lane, I believe the PBA should adopt Pete Weber's oft-stated position and bring back moving pairs every game during match play – just as it was done during the old round-robin format.
   Then you wouldn't be able to sacrifice a game in an effort to win the next one by playing "defense" as I did against Carter.

230-n-up-or-bust

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Re: Art of Breaking Down a Pair to make a shot?
« Reply #65 on: March 27, 2008, 04:40:10 PM »
riggs, ever have this trouble getting a point across at a MAST tournament? A regional?  Nationals?  And people wonder why the quality of posters here has dramatically diminished.  You posted this previously, I wish I had the knowledge when I had the talent.

btw, good luck @ YE this weekend.
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Joebowler98

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Re: Art of Breaking Down a Pair to make a shot?
« Reply #66 on: March 27, 2008, 05:08:25 PM »
Well said Riggs. I'll be in Albq the 5-6th also. I hope to get to see you guys in action and maybe say hello.
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charlest

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Re: Art of Breaking Down a Pair to make a shot?
« Reply #67 on: March 27, 2008, 05:52:17 PM »
Having been at Albuquerque and seen 3-5 boards of area in teams, this is all a moot point. So wasting your warmup shots, trying to create an area that is already there, is stupid and pointless. The right ball for your release is still all that was needed. Not being a good bowler, but having eyes that see, I still say: Cheating is still cheating and ever shall be.

Thus passes bowling integrity, right down the drain.

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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

230-n-up-or-bust

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Re: Art of Breaking Down a Pair to make a shot?
« Reply #68 on: March 27, 2008, 06:15:22 PM »
Is a pitcher not allowed to scuff a baseball or dig an area on the mound to push off of?  Do fielders apply quarts of Glovolium to make the glove softer?  Pine tar?  To a certain length, it's ok, right?  Tennis players manipulate the tension in their strings to fit their game.  Defensive linemen wear skin tight uniforms to make it toughter for linemen to grab them on every play.  These are all tried and true tactics that create an advantage to a particular player or team.  And, every one of them, much like burning in a shot, completely legal.
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The task ahead of us is never as great as the power behind us.

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charlest

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Re: Art of Breaking Down a Pair to make a shot?
« Reply #69 on: March 27, 2008, 06:36:26 PM »
quote:
Is a pitcher not allowed to scuff a baseball or dig an area on the mound to push off of?  Do fielders apply quarts of Glovolium to make the glove softer?  Pine tar?  To a certain length, it's ok, right?  Tennis players manipulate the tension in their strings to fit their game.  Defensive linemen wear skin tight uniforms to make it toughter for linemen to grab them on every play.  These are all tried and true tactics that create an advantage to a particular player or team.  And, every one of them, much like burning in a shot, completely legal.
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The task ahead of us is never as great as the power behind us.

Me

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Charter member of the Cartel for Eradication of Avenging Unicorns


Spoken like a true politician. Legal is often not ethical, nor moral, yet still within the TECHNICAL rules. It makes them no less unethical.

Read "the spirit of the law, vs the letter of the law." again!

PS "myspace"? Really, are you still 12 years old?
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

themachine300

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Re: Art of Breaking Down a Pair to make a shot?
« Reply #70 on: March 27, 2008, 07:44:00 PM »
Do whatever it takes to win as long as its within the rules
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riggs

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Re: Art of Breaking Down a Pair to make a shot?
« Reply #71 on: March 28, 2008, 08:47:46 AM »
300, thanks and yes.
Joebowler98, come up and tap me on the shoulder (or knock me over the head!) and say hi.

CharlesT, I hope you realize in reading what I wrote that you and I are pretty much on the same page.
The powers that be at the PBA have decided that some things are more important than the purest integrity of the game ... i.e. they want matches to stay on a pair so fans can congregate where they want to watch their favorites, etc., and they apparently want managing the environment to be a big part of the game. I do admit it is a challenge that PBA players are forced to master to compete, but I think most of us would prefer that it be a far lesser part of the competition. But when you're trying to make a living you do what you have to within the rules, even if you wish the rules were different. A lot of the purest integrity of the PBA format went out the window they went from Round Robin Match Play to brackets. At least with the stepladder on the TV show you had the excuse that it was to produce something appealing to TV, which is necessary for a Pro Tour.

As for the USBC, you could have no practice balls and it wouldn't end the managing the environment situation. As I've said, we were doing it 25 years ago because it just just makes sense for everyone to play the same area on the lane. Bqall technology just makes it happen faster now. And there is no choice of whether to change your environment or not - EVERY SHOT changes it. The choice is a rational manner or a haphazard manner.

Edited on 3/28/2008 8:48 AM

Dan Belcher

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Re: Art of Breaking Down a Pair to make a shot?
« Reply #72 on: March 28, 2008, 09:08:35 AM »
quote:
Read "the spirit of the law, vs the letter of the law." again!
In sports, the "spirit" of the law be damned.  You do what you have to do to win as long as it goes by the letter of the law.  If you don't, someone else will and you will lose!  "Ethics" is too gray of an area to enforce when reading a rulebook.

230-n-up-or-bust

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Re: Art of Breaking Down a Pair to make a shot?
« Reply #73 on: March 30, 2008, 10:04:11 AM »
quote:
quote:
Is a pitcher not allowed to scuff a baseball or dig an area on the mound to push off of?  Do fielders apply quarts of Glovolium to make the glove softer?  Pine tar?  To a certain length, it's ok, right?  Tennis players manipulate the tension in their strings to fit their game.  Defensive linemen wear skin tight uniforms to make it toughter for linemen to grab them on every play.  These are all tried and true tactics that create an advantage to a particular player or team.  And, every one of them, much like burning in a shot, completely legal.
--------------------
The task ahead of us is never as great as the power behind us.

Me

MTIXE

Charter member of the Cartel for Eradication of Avenging Unicorns


Spoken like a true politician. Legal is often not ethical, nor moral, yet still within the TECHNICAL rules. It makes them no less unethical.

Read "the spirit of the law, vs the letter of the law." again!

PS "myspace"? Really, are you still 12 years old?
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Unofficial Ballreviews.com FAQ


Try, if you will, to liken this to plaing blackjack.  After a pre-determined number of "factor cards" have been exhausted, it's customary to adjust your betting strategies because the house advantage has been dramatically reduced.  Legal?  Absolutely.  Unethical?  I'll allow for a higher power to clarify that.

FWIW, the average age of the friends on my myspace.com page far exceed the 12 year old mentality you claim is necessary to hang out there, including many folks from this site.  Family, friends, pro-bowlers, NASCAR racers, college friends, and patrons.  The possibilities are endless.  It appears that, for you, myspace pertains the the vast area between your ears.  It's not why I'm there.  You're wrong about that.

That makes you two-for-two on this thread.
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The task ahead of us is never as great as the power behind us.

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tenpin477

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Re: Art of Breaking Down a Pair to make a shot?
« Reply #74 on: April 06, 2008, 09:47:47 PM »
Theres not one good argument for cheating. If you read the USBC rulebook I will bet you money you will not find a rule that dictates where you can play on the lane. If all 5 people on a team want to play the same exact line, how in the world can anybody come along and say that every team member has to play a different line. Its just stupid logic lol. The same with people throwing 60 grit bowling balls. Where in the rulebook does it say that you can't throw a 60 grit bowling ball.

Even if they did make a rule banning the deliberate breakdown of an oil pattern, its impossible to prove. "Why were you throwing an extremely dull ball for the first 8 minutes of practice, and then switched to a normal shot?" Answer "I wanted to see how it would react." You can't prove he was deliberately trying to break down the shot.


As long the bowling ball you are throwing is legal, then theres nothing illegal or unethical about deliberately breaking down an oil pattern. Theres nothing unethical about deliberately breaking down an opponent's line with a 60 grit bowling ball either. Its good strategy if you have the ability to pull it off, plain and simple.

bowlitup

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Re: Art of Breaking Down a Pair to make a shot?
« Reply #75 on: April 07, 2008, 06:16:51 AM »
Does lane management give an unfair advantage to any particular bowler, if all participants can do whatever they want to the lanes, and all have the same amount of practice time to do so? No, it does not.

And since it's not unfair...how can it be un-ethical?

And the argument that "I don't have a 60 grit ball to throw" is no good.
Anyone can buy any ball, sand it to any grit, and throw it anywhere they want.

I don't think I need a 60 grit ball. That's a bit ridiculous in my opinion. However, i'd use one if I thought I needed to.

How can this practice be called 'cheating' or 'un-ethical' if every participant is allowed to do it?
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