Author Topic: Changes for 2013 Open Championships (Read 7514 times)

riggs · « **on:** February 03, 2012, 11:16:33 AM »

The 11th Frame: Update: Open Championships changes for 2013 include $30 entry fee hike, fresh oil for all squads, USBC announces

Read more: http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/the-th-frame-update-open-championships-changes-for-include-entry/article_5fc2a37a-4e93-11e1-942d-0019bb2963f4.html#ixzz1lNKofHem

The No. 1 source for bowling news, analysis and opinion is my blog, The 11th Frame, which is here:
http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/

Jorge300 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 06, 2012, 12:31:33 PM »

Northface,

What do think it costs to go to Baton Rouge?

I am spending $1000 for just lodging and car rental. At least in Reno, you can find deals on Hotel rooms, instead of the $120-$150/night in Baton Rouge. It is the same everywhere. It jsut depends on where you spend the money, it is on flights or is it on lodging. I'm not picking on your persay, but I am sick and tired of hearing this same old BS. All I hear is people complain about going to Reno, yet no one steps up and talks to their towns or a close by bigger city convention's bureau to see what it really takes to host one of these tournaments. To see what a convention center would give up by kicking out it's steady yearly customers. I am not a huge fan of Reno, but with the Stadium there, and the breaks it gives the USBC it is very hard for another town to match. And I am not fighting for Eagles either, but I will keep going just because one of these years I may have thte tournament of my life and put myself in contention for one.....it is a very small chance, but that is what will keep me coming back.

As far as the price increase. We got fresh oil every squad, means more expenses. Plus the tournament hasn't increased in price in something like 4-5 years. Has anything else in the world done that? Is gas the same price as 5 years ago? Milk? Clothes? So in order to make the tournament better for everyone, fairer for everyone, there will have to be a small increase. It is the nature of the world, yet I don't see everyone complaining about the rest. It reminds me of something my father told me before he passed away: Bowlers are never happy unless they are complaining.

northface28 wrote on 2/6/2012 12:23 PM:
+100, exactly. Going out to Reno to bowl, eat, lodge, can easily run you $1k. Im not Riggs, im aware im not competing for Eagles, im simply looking to cash and shoot 1850-1900. Dropping that kind of coin to bowl 9 games is foolish for a large percentage of Bowlers.

”Im a really good bowler, ask Ron”

Jorge300

milorafferty · « **Reply #17 on:** February 06, 2012, 12:42:38 PM »

Well said Jorge.

I feel the same way. I live within driving distance of Reno, so it is less expensive for me to travel there, but the hotel prices are much lower in Reno. Over all, eating will be less expensive in Reno (if you choose for it to be).

For those who say there is nothing to do in Reno, you will have the same problem in BR or where ever it is held. A hotel room is a hotel room. If you only bowl and do nothing else in the area, it doesn't matter where the event is.

Jorge300 wrote on 2/6/2012 1:31 PM:Northface,

What do think it costs to go to Baton Rouge? I am spending $1000 for just lodging and car rental. At least in Reno, you can find deals on Hotel rooms, instead of the $120-$150/night in Baton Rouge. It is the same everywhere. It jsut depends on where you spend the money, it is on flights or is it on lodging. I'm not picking on your persay, but I am sick and tired of hearing this same old BS. All I hear is people complain about going to Reno, yet no one steps up and talks to their towns or a close by bigger city convention's bureau to see what it really takes to host one of these tournaments. To see what a convention center would give up by kicking out it's steady yearly customers. I am not a huge fan of Reno, but with the Stadium there, and the breaks it gives the USBC it is very hard for another town to match. And I am not fighting for Eagles either, but I will keep going just because one of these years I may have thte tournament of my life and put myself in contention for one.....it is a very small chance, but that is what will keep me coming back.

As far as the price increase. We got fresh oil every squad, means more expenses. Plus the tournament hasn't increased in price in something like 4-5 years. Has anything else in the world done that? Is gas the same price as 5 years ago? Milk? Clothes? So in order to make the tournament better for everyone, fairer for everyone, there will have to be a small increase. It is the nature of the world, yet I don't see everyone complaining about the rest. It reminds me of something my father told me before he passed away: Bowlers are never happy unless they are complaining.

northface28 wrote on 2/6/2012 12:23 PM:
+100, exactly. Going out to Reno to bowl, eat, lodge, can easily run you $1k. Im not Riggs, im aware im not competing for Eagles, im simply looking to cash and shoot 1850-1900. Dropping that kind of coin to bowl 9 games is foolish for a large percentage of Bowlers.

”Im a really good bowler, ask Ron”

Jorge300

northface28 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 06, 2012, 02:05:37 PM »

Jorge,

Im aware of the costs associated with going to Baton Rouge, I didnt bring it up as im not going. I see and get your point, I just dont agree with it. The fact that USBC gets these phantom ”breaks” leads me to believe, us, the,members, should be benefiting from these ”breaks”, are we? Conjecture on my part, but you get my point.

Using the argument of inflation on gas, milk, and clothing was a reach at best. Bowling is a hobby and survives soley on disposable income, price increase? People will stop bowling, period. Wheras people will continue to put gas in their cars, food on the table, and clothes on their backs. I dont think people are complaining, I certainly am not. I see the costs, dont like it, and speak with my wallet, it ends there.

”Im a really good bowler, ask Ron”

Jorge300 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 06, 2012, 03:37:44 PM »

Northface,

What is there not to agree with? The truth is the truth. Did you ever think that the reason the cost of the entry hasn't gone up since 2007 is because of these "Phantom breaks" from Reno, as you call them? Again, if people want the tournament out of Reno, work with the closest convention center bureau to you to get them to bid for a tournament. Simple as that. But that would require people to get off their butts and go out and do some work, instead of typing away here complaining, so we all know that won't happen.

The analogy is not a reach. Things go up in cost. Do golf clubs cost the same as 5 years ago? Yet people still play golf. ALL things go up in cost, period. We have been behind the curve as prices haven't gone up since 2007. And now they need to raise costs to cover additional expenses, and to offset lower entries. Whether or not you are fighting for an Eagle or not, fairer conditions presented by fresh oil for all squads is something every bowler should be for. If you spend any money in the brackets during D/S you should be all for this, instead of seeing someone following a team like Riggs group where the shot is awesome while you follow a group who had people throwing plastic or 80 grit sanded soakers and you have no shot. You seem to be doing more then speaking with your wallet with your posts here.

There are only a handful of bowlers who can drive to the tournament wherever it is held. For the rest of about 40,000 people (based on 10,000 teams), there are flights involved, rental cars and hotels. For those that complain about it being in Reno so much would do a totally fair and unbiased assessment, you will see that the costs for Reno are not that much more then the costs for any other city. In Reno you can get lodging and food deals that you can't get elsewhere, while the flights are more expensive. Other city's, like Baton Rouge, you pay a lot more for lodging, a little more for food, and get cheaper flights. But people only look at one aspect, the flights and complain over and over. People also complain about there being nothing to do.....but what is there to do in other cities we go to. In Reno, you can go to San Francisco and the sites there, you can go to Carson City or other old west towns, if you go early enough in the tournament you can ski in Tahoe, or spend a relaxing day or two by the lake in the summer. When we were in Syracuse, what was there to do? Baton Rouge? Albuquerque? People saying they are going to stop going because it is in Reno so much are just making excuses. They are using that as the public reason instead of being honest with themselves and others.

northface28 wrote on 2/6/2012 3:05 PM:Jorge,

Im aware of the costs associated with going to Baton Rouge, I didnt bring it up as im not going. I see and get your point, I just dont agree with it. The fact that USBC gets these phantom ”breaks” leads me to believe, us, the,members, should be benefiting from these ”breaks”, are we? Conjecture on my part, but you get my point.

Using the argument of inflation on gas, milk, and clothing was a reach at best. Bowling is a hobby and survives soley on disposable income, price increase? People will stop bowling, period. Wheras people will continue to put gas in their cars, food on the table, and clothes on their backs. I dont think people are complaining, I certainly am not. I see the costs, dont like it, and speak with my wallet, it ends there.

”Im a really good bowler, ask Ron”

Jorge300

tburky · « **Reply #20 on:** February 06, 2012, 05:02:50 PM »

Jorge300 wrote on 2/6/2012 4:37 PM:Northface,

What is there not to agree with? The truth is the truth. Did you ever think that the reason the cost of the entry hasn't gone up since 2007 is because of these "Phantom breaks" from Reno, as you call them? Again, if people want the tournament out of Reno, work with the closest convention center bureau to you to get them to bid for a tournament. Simple as that. But that would require people to get off their butts and go out and do some work, instead of typing away here complaining, so we all know that won't happen.

The analogy is not a reach. Things go up in cost. Do golf clubs cost the same as 5 years ago? Yet people still play golf. ALL things go up in cost, period. We have been behind the curve as prices haven't gone up since 2007. And now they need to raise costs to cover additional expenses, and to offset lower entries. Whether or not you are fighting for an Eagle or not, fairer conditions presented by fresh oil for all squads is something every bowler should be for. If you spend any money in the brackets during D/S you should be all for this, instead of seeing someone following a team like Riggs group where the shot is awesome while you follow a group who had people throwing plastic or 80 grit sanded soakers and you have no shot. You seem to be doing more then speaking with your wallet with your posts here.

There are only a handful of bowlers who can drive to the tournament wherever it is held. For the rest of about 40,000 people (based on 10,000 teams), there are flights involved, rental cars and hotels. For those that complain about it being in Reno so much would do a totally fair and unbiased assessment, you will see that the costs for Reno are not that much more then the costs for any other city. In Reno you can get lodging and food deals that you can't get elsewhere, while the flights are more expensive. Other city's, like Baton Rouge, you pay a lot more for lodging, a little more for food, and get cheaper flights. But people only look at one aspect, the flights and complain over and over. People also complain about there being nothing to do.....but what is there to do in other cities we go to. In Reno, you can go to San Francisco and the sites there, you can go to Carson City or other old west towns, if you go early enough in the tournament you can ski in Tahoe, or spend a relaxing day or two by the lake in the summer. When we were in Syracuse, what was there to do? Baton Rouge? Albuquerque? People saying they are going to stop going because it is in Reno so much are just making excuses. They are using that as the public reason instead of being honest with themselves and others.

northface28 wrote on 2/6/2012 3:05 PM:Jorge,

Im aware of the costs associated with going to Baton Rouge, I didnt bring it up as im not going. I see and get your point, I just dont agree with it. The fact that USBC gets these phantom ”breaks” leads me to believe, us, the,members, should be benefiting from these ”breaks”, are we? Conjecture on my part, but you get my point.

Using the argument of inflation on gas, milk, and clothing was a reach at best. Bowling is a hobby and survives soley on disposable income, price increase? People will stop bowling, period. Wheras people will continue to put gas in their cars, food on the table, and clothes on their backs. I dont think people are complaining, I certainly am not. I see the costs, dont like it, and speak with my wallet, it ends there.

”Im a really good bowler, ask Ron”

Jorge300

Jorge it is not that simple to come up with places to go. There is too much politics in it period. They tried to get it in the tulsa area but there was so much politics involved in it that it became ridiculous. Personally I don't care for Reno. As for the price increase I have no problem with it since there will be fresh oil for each squad whether team or doubles/singles. People are tired going to Reno. A lot of people use the Nationals as their bowling/vacation as a lot of people do only have 1 or 2 weeks of vacation time.

Tex · « **Reply #21 on:** February 06, 2012, 09:34:02 PM »

If you think about the cost increase in a different way, it isn't as much as the whole. They raised each event by $10 or which $5 is going right back to the bowlers. So while there expense fund is going up, our prize fund is also going up the same amount. I am a tournament promoter and I can tell you my events have gone up since the USBC went up on theirs. I bet the local tournaments in your area have as well. We can't get $180 for 9 games like the nationals, but we shouldn't either.

On Reno. Sure I like going other places however I sure can't complain about the costs once we get there. The past two years I have only paid for one nights stay and that was at a third of the regular cost. This was at Harrah's a block or so away from the stadium. Not too bad. I was told that Harrah's New Orleans for a ,even with member benefits is almost $200. Forget about getting that quality of a room in BR for $50 one night and free the rest. Food is food, better you eat the more it costs. I don't rent a car in Reno, though my buddies normally do and anywhere else I have to rent a car or drive (like this year). It all works out and I get to bowl in the greatest amatuer event in the US.

As far as bowling for an Eagle. If we didn 't go there thinking that we couldn't get hot and win one, well don't know if I would go. Our teams have won a lot of events, so why not this one. Is that realistic, maybe not, but you bowl your best and if you walk out knowing you did all you could then that is good enough. To go in thinking I can't win or I won't cash, well that is beyond my comprehension. I go expecting to get a 1099 and mad at myself if I don't. Heck I don't mind turning that one in to Uncle Sam.

Roll with 900 Global.

Made in Texas!

jaydee · « **Reply #22 on:** February 07, 2012, 07:35:59 AM »

This would be a good arguement, but the fact is, the USBC only opens the bidding 1 out of 3 years. The years that are open for bidding, there ARE cities that bid. You speak as if the reason it's in Reno every year is because NO one else bids, no one else wants it. That is not the case.

Jorge300 wrote on 2/6/2012 4:37 PM:
Northface,

What is there not to agree with? The truth is the truth. Did you ever think that the reason the cost of the entry hasn't gone up since 2007 is because of these "Phantom breaks" from Reno, as you call them? Again, if people want the tournament out of Reno, work with the closest convention center bureau to you to get them to bid for a tournament. Simple as that. But that would require people to get off their butts and go out and do some work, instead of typing away here complaining, so we all know that won't happen.

Jorge300

bsone1 · « **Reply #23 on:** February 07, 2012, 08:35:33 AM »

Jorge300 - "All I hear is people complain about going to Reno, yet no one steps up and talks to their towns or a close by bigger city convention's bureau to see what it really takes to host one of these tournaments."

In my opinion the USBC should be the one beating the bushes and selling the tournament to other cities. I understand that it ties a convention center up 7 to 8 months, but as I said the USBC needs to sell the idea, this is one of the things we pay them for. If the USBC continues to reply on Reno eventually as everyone suspect Reno will be the permanent host for both the Open and Women's tournament. When that happens you can kiss the cheap rooms and food goodby because Reno will not have to offer that incentive because they will have a captive audience.

I also believe there to be alot of thing to do around the Reno/Tahoe area, but when you are going as often as it is scheduled you will eventually do it all (or at least what you can afford).

As they say "Variety is the spice of life"

TWOHAND834 · « **Reply #24 on:** February 07, 2012, 09:03:28 AM »

Jorge,

I think what he is trying to say is that bowling is not a neccesity. Clothes, food, and gas are. Clothes, food and gas are a priority. Bowling isnt. If prices go up, people wont be able to afford to bowl because they have to pay for the increases in necessity things. If the USBC isnt careful, they will fall just like other businesses. They need to spend more time trying to find ways to keep what we love to do affordable or people will start bolting to other interests. It is a shame. But like you said, truth is truth my friend. What used to be a $500 trip 5-10 years ago is quickly doubling in costs. If it continues, OUR biggest Tournament wont survive.

Jorge300 wrote on 2/6/2012 4:37 PM:
Northface,

What is there not to agree with? The truth is the truth. Did you ever think that the reason the cost of the entry hasn't gone up since 2007 is because of these "Phantom breaks" from Reno, as you call them? Again, if people want the tournament out of Reno, work with the closest convention center bureau to you to get them to bid for a tournament. Simple as that. But that would require people to get off their butts and go out and do some work, instead of typing away here complaining, so we all know that won't happen.

The analogy is not a reach. Things go up in cost. Do golf clubs cost the same as 5 years ago? Yet people still play golf. ALL things go up in cost, period. We have been behind the curve as prices haven't gone up since 2007. And now they need to raise costs to cover additional expenses, and to offset lower entries. Whether or not you are fighting for an Eagle or not, fairer conditions presented by fresh oil for all squads is something every bowler should be for. If you spend any money in the brackets during D/S you should be all for this, instead of seeing someone following a team like Riggs group where the shot is awesome while you follow a group who had people throwing plastic or 80 grit sanded soakers and you have no shot. You seem to be doing more then speaking with your wallet with your posts here.

There are only a handful of bowlers who can drive to the tournament wherever it is held. For the rest of about 40,000 people (based on 10,000 teams), there are flights involved, rental cars and hotels. For those that complain about it being in Reno so much would do a totally fair and unbiased assessment, you will see that the costs for Reno are not that much more then the costs for any other city. In Reno you can get lodging and food deals that you can't get elsewhere, while the flights are more expensive. Other city's, like Baton Rouge, you pay a lot more for lodging, a little more for food, and get cheaper flights. But people only look at one aspect, the flights and complain over and over. People also complain about there being nothing to do.....but what is there to do in other cities we go to. In Reno, you can go to San Francisco and the sites there, you can go to Carson City or other old west towns, if you go early enough in the tournament you can ski in Tahoe, or spend a relaxing day or two by the lake in the summer. When we were in Syracuse, what was there to do? Baton Rouge? Albuquerque? People saying they are going to stop going because it is in Reno so much are just making excuses. They are using that as the public reason instead of being honest with themselves and others.

northface28 wrote on 2/6/2012 3:05 PM:Jorge,

Im aware of the costs associated with going to Baton Rouge, I didnt bring it up as im not going. I see and get your point, I just dont agree with it. The fact that USBC gets these phantom ”breaks” leads me to believe, us, the,members, should be benefiting from these ”breaks”, are we? Conjecture on my part, but you get my point.

Using the argument of inflation on gas, milk, and clothing was a reach at best. Bowling is a hobby and survives soley on disposable income, price increase? People will stop bowling, period. Wheras people will continue to put gas in their cars, food on the table, and clothes on their backs. I dont think people are complaining, I certainly am not. I see the costs, dont like it, and speak with my wallet, it ends there.

”Im a really good bowler, ask Ron”

Jorge300

Peace doesnt always have to be silent.

Andyman3333 · « **Reply #25 on:** February 07, 2012, 10:32:28 AM »

When you fly from Alaska, it doesn't matter where the tournament is. It all costs a lot of money. Hell, we're flying in to Houston, Texas to save about $1000 in airfare and then driving 5 hours to Baton Rouge in a rental car. Baton Rouge is going to cost me double what it costs me to stay in Reno. With that said, I go to bowl and to make my best effort at winning one of those birds.

As for the changes. I'm fine with the fresh oil. Last year the guys on our doubles pair (two teams) bowtied the pair with the old guy team playing 2nd arrow all day while the 5-high rev guy team played 5th arrow from game 1. Needless to say, we had no choice but to play even further inside. No hold, lots of push right and a 1206 doubles score left us kind of feeling robbed of an opportunity. Then we moved to singles, the pair was very well cared for, and we shot 727 (300 game), and 752 (me) for 1479, which doesn't mean jack in singles. So I like this change.

Price increase is expected. Things don't cost the same. $30, on top of $1500, for me is insignificant in the grand scheme of things. I go to win birds.

www.brunswickbowling.com

The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.

PROFILE
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Arsenal: (In the bag) Nexus F(p+f), Nexus f(p), C-System Ulti-Max, Massive Damage, Damage. On the wall, Loaded Revolver, Lethal Revolver, Slingshot.

JessN16 · « **Reply #26 on:** February 07, 2012, 11:56:34 PM »

Price increases are largely irrelevant. The law of compounding says the cost of everything you buy, from fast food to cars to houses to bowling balls to medicine to whatever, doubles every 20 years on average (and in some commodities, such as foodstuffs or oil, less than 20 years). Going up $30 on the entry fee is justifiable anyway, especially considering oiling for all shifts.

What has to change is the Reno thing. I don't believe such a large venue is a necessity and if entries continue to decline, the tournament will back itself into a smaller venue anyway. On the other hand, I noticed a post above about Tulsa and "politics," and I'd like to say that if you have information -- with names -- then out with it. I'm not accusing anyone of lying, I just know that nebulous charges change nothing.

The PBA is already hanging itself by becoming the World Series of Bowling plus a handful of events in the midwest/northeast. The USBC can't afford to follow suit just because Reno feels comfortable to them. The Orlando projects needs to move forward, quickly, and we need to get this tournament up to the northeast soon.

Jess

Jorge300 · « **Reply #27 on:** February 08, 2012, 07:43:02 AM »

Don't get me wrong. I too liked it when the tournament moved around to different cities. I liked seeing places I would never get to otherwise, I even liked going to Billings for that reason. I am no huge fan of Reno, but it is what it is and complaining about it over and over again isn't going to do anything.

And do I think it is simple to get the tournament to another city, no. My statement was more to the fact that if you did go and talk to the closest convention center bureau, you would see that most aren't interested. There are some that will bid, I am sure. But in order to offset the loss of revenue they would see from yearly returning events, it makes it difficult to put a competitive bid together. Especially when going up against the Stadium and Reno. Most cities that do get the tournament have casinos that add money to the bid, if your city doesn't have that, it makes it difficult to win. There are many obstacles for getting the tournament out of Reno, irregardless of the "politics" claimed above.

I understand that bowling is not a necessity. But my point was I don't see people complaining about the rising costs of other "nice to have" things. All prices go up, it happens. I think we have seen that the small increase isn't that big of a deal. It only becomes one when people use it as an excuse or just something else to complain about.

Let me put it this way...no one complains that the Masters is at Augusta every year. People have to pay high travel costs to get there from places out west. Yet they go and compete for the prestige of the tournament. There are the majority of players who have no chance of winning it, yet they go anyway. Sound familiar?!? Now I know the payouts are much higher at the Masters, before some maroon opens his mouth, but the idea holds true. Why can't the USBC Open become something like that at the Stadium, one of the best bowling venues in the US?

Jorge300

storm making it rain · « **Reply #28 on:** February 08, 2012, 08:03:46 AM »

Jorge,

I agree that Reno COULD become a bowling mecca so to speak, but the city has loads of work to do to get it to that place. I love bowling at the stadium but i get bored with Reno itself. We've gone to Tahoe, we've gambled at every casino, etc etc.... Being from the east coast it is a pain to get there and costs a good amount of money, but IMO I love bowling and i'm going to go to the national tournament every year if i can.

Just like anything else people will complain just to complain...

TWOHAND834 · « **Reply #29 on:** February 08, 2012, 08:17:14 AM »

Good points! I can agree that beating a dead horse can get a little irritating. Honestly I am a little shocked that more places wouldnt bid simply because of the revenue that can be generated with hotels, food, those that can hit tourist attractions, etc.... There may be a time where the USBC may have to start looking into more metropolitan type cities such as an Atlanta, Chicago, or Dallas.

How does this work? Does the USBC wait to hear from cities that want to host or are they on the telephones beating down different cities trying to promote the Tournament in hopes of getting bids?

Jorge300 wrote on 2/8/2012 8:43 AM:
Don't get me wrong. I too liked it when the tournament moved around to different cities. I liked seeing places I would never get to otherwise, I even liked going to Billings for that reason. I am no huge fan of Reno, but it is what it is and complaining about it over and over again isn't going to do anything.

And do I think it is simple to get the tournament to another city, no. My statement was more to the fact that if you did go and talk to the closest convention center bureau, you would see that most aren't interested. There are some that will bid, I am sure. But in order to offset the loss of revenue they would see from yearly returning events, it makes it difficult to put a competitive bid together. Especially when going up against the Stadium and Reno. Most cities that do get the tournament have casinos that add money to the bid, if your city doesn't have that, it makes it difficult to win. There are many obstacles for getting the tournament out of Reno, irregardless of the "politics" claimed above.

I understand that bowling is not a necessity. But my point was I don't see people complaining about the rising costs of other "nice to have" things. All prices go up, it happens. I think we have seen that the small increase isn't that big of a deal. It only becomes one when people use it as an excuse or just something else to complain about.

Let me put it this way...no one complains that the Masters is at Augusta every year. People have to pay high travel costs to get there from places out west. Yet they go and compete for the prestige of the tournament. There are the majority of players who have no chance of winning it, yet they go anyway. Sound familiar?!? Now I know the payouts are much higher at the Masters, before some maroon opens his mouth, but the idea holds true. Why can't the USBC Open become something like that at the Stadium, one of the best bowling venues in the US?

Jorge300

Peace doesnt always have to be silent.

storm making it rain · « **Reply #30 on:** February 08, 2012, 08:21:36 AM »

TwoHand,

I'm unsure how the entire process works but, i know a couple of years ago there wer a few bidding cities

(Vegas & Another) and Reno outbid them. I think IMO it comes down to money from the bidding process. Like said before i enjoy going to places i would otherwise not travel to ie: Corpus, Billings, Baton Rouge.