Author Topic: Changes for 2013 Open Championships (Read 7513 times)

riggs · « **on:** February 03, 2012, 11:16:33 AM »

The 11th Frame: Update: Open Championships changes for 2013 include $30 entry fee hike, fresh oil for all squads, USBC announces

Read more: http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/the-th-frame-update-open-championships-changes-for-include-entry/article_5fc2a37a-4e93-11e1-942d-0019bb2963f4.html#ixzz1lNKofHem

The No. 1 source for bowling news, analysis and opinion is my blog, The 11th Frame, which is here:
http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/

jaydee · « **Reply #31 on:** February 08, 2012, 08:25:23 AM »

Again, you're talking as if no one else is interested in hosting the tournament but Reno. Are you suggesting that no one else would bid the 2/3 years that Reno is suppose to host the tourney? When Reno doesn't have it, there always seems to be 3-4 cities vying for it. How many cities put together bids every year back in the 80's or 90's?

What is your point in saying that "you will see that most (cities) aren't interested (in hosting the tournament)"? You don't need "most" cities in the country bidding for the Nationals! You only need a few, which has been demonstrated.

Jorge300 wrote on 2/8/2012 8:43 AM:
Don't get me wrong. I too liked it when the tournament moved around to different cities. I liked seeing places I would never get to otherwise, I even liked going to Billings for that reason. I am no huge fan of Reno, but it is what it is and complaining about it over and over again isn't going to do anything.

And do I think it is simple to get the tournament to another city, no. My statement was more to the fact that if you did go and talk to the closest convention center bureau, you would see that most aren't interested. There are some that will bid, I am sure. But in order to offset the loss of revenue they would see from yearly returning events, it makes it difficult to put a competitive bid together. Especially when going up against the Stadium and Reno. Most cities that do get the tournament have casinos that add money to the bid, if your city doesn't have that, it makes it difficult to win. There are many obstacles for getting the tournament out of Reno, irregardless of the "politics" claimed above.

Jorge300

MrPerfect · « **Reply #32 on:** February 08, 2012, 09:02:13 AM »

Oddly, my wife is actually the project manager for the proposed 100 lane Disney bowling center. The plans are done and it's ready to be built, but Disney is just holding off because they are trying to get a 30 million tax break from the state to build it.

storm making it rain wrote on 2/6/2012 12:30 PM:
I agree with the Reno thing it gets old quick and being from the east it does cost you $1000 for the trip. Luckily for me it becomes a wash or plus a little with tournament and bracket winnings.

Side note a friend of my brothers was in Orlando recently and saw a sign about a bowling stadium down there.

Jorge300 · « **Reply #33 on:** February 08, 2012, 09:27:05 AM »

Jaydee,

And you are talking like a maroon. Stop and think for a second. The USBC Open is first and foremost a business. It is run to make a profit for the USBC as any business is. Once you understand that, the rest is simple.

Are there cities bidding on it, of course. But they are a far and few between. I would wager that for any non-Reno year you have between 3-5 cities that would submit bids. These bids are then evaluated. Now Reno comes in and says, USBC if you want you can hold the Open here for multiple years and here is our deal. If that deal is the most advantageous and profitable for the USBC, why would they turn it down??? What I am hearing is they should lose money just to make a small percentage of their members happy.....what successful business does that??? In case you need help, the answer is none. The economy was horrid, the tournament was going to lose teams because of that no matter where it was. There are still many many people unemployed or under-employed. The deal Reno gave the USBC assures them of being profitable even if the total number of teams drops to at or below 10,000 (that was reported when the origianl deal was signed a few years ago, not some speculation on my part).

My original point, that you missed by a mile, is that there aren't a huge number of cities bidding for this tournament, and it is hard to get new cities to bid if you go and talk to the closest large city convention center bureau you would find out why. With that, the cities that do bid are facing an uphill battle because of the logistics and money it takes to make a bid. So when all that is added together, you can see why Reno is the destination more frequently.

jaydee wrote on 2/8/2012 9:25 AM:
Again, you're talking as if no one else is interested in hosting the tournament but Reno. Are you suggesting that no one else would bid the 2/3 years that Reno is suppose to host the tourney? When Reno doesn't have it, there always seems to be 3-4 cities vying for it. How many cities put together bids every year back in the 80's or 90's?

What is your point in saying that "you will see that most (cities) aren't interested (in hosting the tournament)"? You don't need "most" cities in the country bidding for the Nationals! You only need a few, which has been demonstrated.

Jorge300

Jorge300 · « **Reply #34 on:** February 08, 2012, 09:44:04 AM »

Storm,

I do not see that happening, at least not anytime soon. But why should that matter. Atlantic City is tourist destination, but you go about a block away from the casinos and you are in some of the worst neighborhoods around. Reno, to me, doesn't seem as bad as those areas are (or at least were). But the biggest issue to making Reno THE spot for the Open is history. There are a huge number of people who like the idea of traveling from city to city. And to get them to change their mind will be very difficult.

As far as things to do.....if you look there can be plenty to do to make it a "vacation" as well as bowling. Spend a day or two in San Francisco before bowling, go to the Redwoods of John Muir Woods, go to Pebble Beach and the Monterrey area for a few days. If you extend your trip a little, spend time in the LA area, go to Yosemite National Park. Closer to Reno, go to Carson City, Virginia City or some other "Old West" town for the day. Another thing that people are reluctant to do, is change the time of the bowling. But if going to Reno for multiple years, it might be something to consider. If you are willing to go earlier or later then your normal, Tahoe gives you two distinct experiences. If you go in February, you can potentially enjoy skiing and other winter activities in Tahoe. If you go in June, Tahoe can give you lush greenery, great outdoor activities and some great activities on the lake. It just takes people's willingness to change, but that is hard, very hard for a lot of people.

On edit: Storm, sorry it looks like I was directing the things to do at you, that was not my intent. Just trying to give people in general ideas they may not have thought of. I used to live in the SF Bay area and know there are a huge number of thigns to do in that area. People can go to Reno for 2-3 years and if they only spend a day or two in the SF area, still not get anywhere close to seeing everything.

storm making it rain wrote on 2/8/2012 9:03 AM:
Jorge,

I agree that Reno COULD become a bowling mecca so to speak, but the city has loads of work to do to get it to that place. I love bowling at the stadium but i get bored with Reno itself. We've gone to Tahoe, we've gambled at every casino, etc etc.... Being from the east coast it is a pain to get there and costs a good amount of money, but IMO I love bowling and I'm going to go to the national tournament every year if i can.

Just like anything else people will complain just to complain...

Jorge300

Edited by Jorge300 on 2/8/2012 at 10:46 AM

txbowler · « **Reply #35 on:** February 08, 2012, 10:48:52 AM »

I can almost guarantee the cheap rooms will always be there. As member of many casino players clubs, anytime we travel to a city the has one of the casino/hotels in it, we contact that hotel and mention that we are a member of the players club and usually get 2-3 nights comped. And I am not a medium or high roller by any means. A little craps here and there, and the wife plays some penny slots. Even on the weekends, the hotels may not comp the rooms, but you only pay $29 or $39 a night.

Why would they do this? Because if over the course of your 2-3 day visit, if you happen to put a couple of $20's into a slot machine and lose, they made more money on you than charging you for the room.

Now if you never gamble, that's a totally different issue.

bsone1 wrote on 2/7/2012 9:35 AM:Jorge300 - "All I hear is people complain about going to Reno, yet no one steps up and talks to their towns or a close by bigger city convention's bureau to see what it really takes to host one of these tournaments."

In my opinion the USBC should be the one beating the bushes and selling the tournament to other cities. I understand that it ties a convention center up 7 to 8 months, but as I said the USBC needs to sell the idea, this is one of the things we pay them for. If the USBC continues to reply on Reno eventually as everyone suspect Reno will be the permanent host for both the Open and Women's tournament. When that happens you can kiss the cheap rooms and food goodby because Reno will not have to offer that incentive because they will have a captive audience.

I also believe there to be alot of thing to do around the Reno/Tahoe area, but when you are going as often as it is scheduled you will eventually do it all (or at least what you can afford).

As they say "Variety is the spice of life"

milorafferty · « **Reply #36 on:** February 08, 2012, 11:39:26 AM »

I would also like to visit other cities, but if you just stay in your hotel room, what's the difference? I've listed several things to do around Reno, but the "No More Reno" crowd just doesn't want to listen.

As Jorge mentioned, Tahoe, Carson City, and Virginia City are all close by.

Golf? World class golf is available in Reno and Tahoe both.

Fishing? Pyramid Lake is 40 miles north, the Truckee River runs THROUGH Reno, along with East Walker and Davis lakes being close by. Reno/Tahoe Fishing Report

How about Wine Country? I bet your wife would love that. Rent a car, it's about 4 hours away

San Francisco? 4 hours away, better yet, fly into SFO (since there is a lot of complaints about flights into Reno) or fly into San Jose, Oakland or Sacramento(these will all be less than SF or Reno).

Monterey? 5 1/2 hours and plenty to see and do on the way.

How about amusement parks for the kids? Vallejo 3.5 hours Six Flags Discovery Kingdom

Or Santa Clara 4 hours Great America

Head to the Northern California coast to see the largest trees you will ever see and some amazing coastal scenery. 6+ hours Avenue of the Giants

Yosemite National Park is about 3 1/2 hours to Tuolomne Meadows and 5 hours to the famous Yosemite valley.

How about a little adventure, something out of the ordinary? How about white water rafting? White Water rafting on the American River. Ok, how about skydiving? Reno/Tahoe Skydiving

Again, I hear you about the Open being in the same place, and yea, Reno itself can get old. But honestly, is Baton Rouge going to be any better for you? El Paso in 2015? Not if you don't get your butt out of your hotel room and see the surrounding area it won't.

Stop being a room rat, you might find that you can enjoy yourself a lot more.

Jorge300 wrote on 2/8/2012 10:44 AM:Storm,

I do not see that happening, at least not anytime soon. But why should that matter. Atlantic City is tourist destination, but you go about a block away from the casinos and you are in some of the worst neighborhoods around. Reno, to me, doesn't seem as bad as those areas are (or at least were). But the biggest issue to making Reno THE spot for the Open is history. There are a huge number of people who like the idea of traveling from city to city. And to get them to change their mind will be very difficult.

As far as things to do.....if you look there can be plenty to do to make it a "vacation" as well as bowling. Spend a day or two in San Francisco before bowling, go to the Redwoods of John Muir Woods, go to Pebble Beach and the Monterrey area for a few days. If you extend your trip a little, spend time in the LA area, go to Yosemite National Park. Closer to Reno, go to Carson City, Virginia City or some other "Old West" town for the day. Another thing that people are reluctant to do, is change the time of the bowling. But if going to Reno for multiple years, it might be something to consider. If you are willing to go earlier or later then your normal, Tahoe gives you two distinct experiences. If you go in February, you can potentially enjoy skiing and other winter activities in Tahoe. If you go in June, Tahoe can give you lush greenery, great outdoor activities and some great activities on the lake. It just takes people's willingness to change, but that is hard, very hard for a lot of people.

On edit: Storm, sorry it looks like I was directing the things to do at you, that was not my intent. Just trying to give people in general ideas they may not have thought of. I used to live in the SF Bay area and know there are a huge number of thigns to do in that area. People can go to Reno for 2-3 years and if they only spend a day or two in the SF area, still not get anywhere close to seeing everything.

Edited by milorafferty on 2/8/2012 at 12:40 PM

Mike James · « **Reply #37 on:** February 13, 2012, 01:29:33 PM »

Be carefull what you wish for you just might get it......with the new changes in 2013 and the fresh oil...i can see the elite having some major problems......first they like to break down the team event pattern then move in and fire away.....now in minors they don;t have the time to do this and are forced to bowl on the actual fresh.....interesting

Andyman3333 · « **Reply #38 on:** February 13, 2012, 04:27:19 PM »

Mike,

I'm not sure the fresh will really hurt the best teams when it comes to singles and doubles. They'll still have six players, can still work in a spot, and still open it up. Just think, once you've opened up the lane a little, you have less traffic, less transition and can maintain stronger entry angles. And you're not moving pairs. I would figure winning scores in doubles might decrease a little, but the winning scores in singles are going to be very high. I think this will expand the difference between good players and not so good players.

www.brunswickbowling.com

The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.

PROFILE
340-370 revs
18 mph
230 book on THS
200 book on PBA

Arsenal: (In the bag) Nexus F(p+f), Nexus f(p), C-System Ulti-Max, Massive Damage, Damage. On the wall, Loaded Revolver, Lethal Revolver, Slingshot.

Mike James · « **Reply #39 on:** February 14, 2012, 06:06:30 AM »

Difference is you only get one ball on each lane during doubles....hard to carve in a track in so short of a time

Andyman3333 wrote on 2/13/2012 5:27 PM:
Mike,

I'm not sure the fresh will really hurt the best teams when it comes to singles and doubles. They'll still have six players, can still work in a spot, and still open it up. Just think, once you've opened up the lane a little, you have less traffic, less transition and can maintain stronger entry angles. And you're not moving pairs. I would figure winning scores in doubles might decrease a little, but the winning scores in singles are going to be very high. I think this will expand the difference between good players and not so good players.

www.brunswickbowling.com

The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.

PROFILE
340-370 revs
18 mph
230 book on THS
200 book on PBA

Arsenal: (In the bag) Nexus F(p+f), Nexus f(p), C-System Ulti-Max, Massive Damage, Damage. On the wall, Loaded Revolver, Lethal Revolver, Slingshot.

dR3w · « **Reply #40 on:** February 14, 2012, 07:28:39 AM »

Did I understand the previous poster correctly, that bowlers do not have to move pairs between doubles and singles?

dR3w

"This space for rent"

Edited by dR3w on 2/15/2012 at 3:15 PM

sport300 · « **Reply #41 on:** February 14, 2012, 07:35:32 AM »

i agree with andy. regardless of only 6 people to a pair vs. 8 or 10, when managed properly, the lanes will come to you. it may take a little longer at times, but when it does, that's when you'll see the seperation in the scores. it's still better to manage the shot properly than not.

now that you have the opportunity to practice on the shot @ the covention center, that will take even more guesswork out of the equation. i can see some of the stronger teams booking 2 or 3 sessions on the practice lanes just to master the game plan.

Andyman3333 · « **Reply #42 on:** February 14, 2012, 10:08:32 AM »

You get two balls per lane. Just to clarify. And good teams/bowlers will use a portion of their first game to create room for games two and three and hope to go big. That's why in team they are shooting for 1050-1100 in game 1 and trying for 1150-1200 in games two and three.

Mike James wrote on 2/14/2012 7:06 AM:
Difference is you only get one ball on each lane during doubles....hard to carve in a track in so short of a time

Andyman3333 wrote on 2/13/2012 5:27 PM:

Mike,

I'm not sure the fresh will really hurt the best teams when it comes to singles and doubles. They'll still have six players, can still work in a spot, and still open it up. Just think, once you've opened up the lane a little, you have less traffic, less transition and can maintain stronger entry angles. And you're not moving pairs. I would figure winning scores in doubles might decrease a little, but the winning scores in singles are going to be very high. I think this will expand the difference between good players and not so good players.

www.brunswickbowling.com

The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.

PROFILE
340-370 revs
18 mph
230 book on THS
200 book on PBA

Arsenal: (In the bag) Nexus F(p+f), Nexus f(p), C-System Ulti-Max, Massive Damage, Damage. On the wall, Loaded Revolver, Lethal Revolver, Slingshot.

www.brunswickbowling.com

The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.

PROFILE
340-370 revs
18 mph
230 book on THS
200 book on PBA

Arsenal: (In the bag) Nexus F(p+f), Nexus f(p), C-System Ulti-Max, Massive Damage, Damage. On the wall, Loaded Revolver, Lethal Revolver, Slingshot.

Jorge300 · « **Reply #43 on:** February 15, 2012, 02:33:21 PM »

dR3,

Yes, starting in 2013 all 6 minor games will be bowled on the same pair. This was done, as was the fresh oil for every squad, to remove the variable bowlers outside of your team/group can influence the final outcome of your scores. Only those bowlers bowling with you and you affect your scores.

dR3w wrote on 2/14/2012 8:28 AM:Did I understand the previous poster correctly, that bowlers do not have to move pairs between doubles and singles?

dR3w

"This space for rent"

Edited by dR3w on 2/15/2012 at 3:15 PM

Edited by dR3w on 2/15/2012 at 3:15 PM

Jorge300

Tex · « **Reply #44 on:** March 03, 2012, 12:26:07 AM »

The not changing lanes has been popular here in Texas for several years. My tournaments went to this I think 4 years ago. We have fully reconditioned every squad since the 90's. The no change has a scheduling advatage as well. The lanes that end up with 4 bowlers get done much faster and there is no loss of time moving from pair to pair. Also always seemed like break time too. I believe our state converted just before I did, our city championship a couple years later. I also do 10 minutes practice while some think that they save time with two balls on each lane and I challenge them to keeping track of the time, especially in team event. I like all of the changes other than forcing the on line regestration with the extra fees. As far as the 180, well how much did you put in brackets last year compared to the 150, the extra 30 is chicken feed as we say down here.

Roll with 900 Global.

Made in Texas!

mainzer · « **Reply #45 on:** March 03, 2012, 12:35:23 AM »

I like the changes, Thirty extra bucks isn't that big of a deal if you can afford to make the trip you can handle an extra thirty bucks.

Fresh oil for all shifts will probably lower scoring pace, and allow the cream to rise to the top, which is a good thing, the house mouse gets enough of an ego boost for 32 weeks out of a year he should be able to handle one good ass kicking a year for humility therapy. Better bowlers will be able to break the pattern down and and score well across all events.

MainzerPower