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Author Topic: CHEATERS CAUGHT AT NATIONALS  (Read 8830 times)

microfiber

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CHEATERS CAUGHT AT NATIONALS
« on: March 09, 2008, 09:18:02 AM »
I heard from a local bowler that just got back from Nationals that Columbia's Brand Manager, Chad Murphy, got caught trying to slip in with 3 PBA members. As soon sa they got done bowling they were DQ'd! Treats em' right.

How did they think they were going to get away with that? Nice move X-lax, try again next year.

Now if they could just do something about the SANDBAGGER leading all the Classified divisions it'd all be good!
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Pinbuster

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Re: CHEATERS CAUGHT AT NATIONALS
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2008, 11:25:16 AM »
As I understand the rule.

You are considered a PBA member if you currently have a card or had a card in the previous 12 months.

Only 2 PBA members are allowed to bowl on a team.
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riggs

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Re: CHEATERS CAUGHT AT NATIONALS
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2008, 11:43:42 AM »
You can have two PBA members (exempt players excluded) on a team and one in a doubles pair.

The green sheet captains get to fill out has two lines - one is to list members or applicants for the current year and one is to list those were members in the prior calendar year.

The way I understand it, this team had two current members and one who was last year and their thought was that if that person had dropped their card he wasn't considered a member for the limit of 2 so they could bowl together. USBC did NOT flag it before they bowled.

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riggs

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Re: CHEATERS CAUGHT AT NATIONALS
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2008, 11:50:16 AM »
If my math is correct, they had 9,598 team all-events, which would be the leading score ... if they hadn't been DQ'd out of team competition.

They made a mistake but I wouldn't use the term cheaters. Just unfortunate it wasn't flagged before they bowled so they could have rearranged their 10 guys to make it legal.
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LuckyLefty

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Re: CHEATERS CAUGHT AT NATIONALS
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2008, 11:51:21 AM »
Very informative post.

I appreciate the information REVEALED in this post!

Ummmmm, Ummmmm

REgards,

Luckylefty
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proshopbowl

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Re: CHEATERS CAUGHT AT NATIONALS
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2008, 01:15:01 PM »
Well I've only been to Nationals three times and I knew this rule. Maybe this is cause I read the rules before signing on the dotted line. We're about to make our trip out to Nationals and found the green sheet in question. Rule #2 is pretty clear.

After checking with your bowlers about their sttus, please answer the following questions:
1. Do you have anyone on your roster currently a member of, or has an application for membership on file, in any league or tournament group that uses or contains the words professional, semi-professional, or semi-pro? (PBA, PWBA, etc)
No____  Yes____ If yes, list names:___________________________________


2. In the year 2007 were any bowler(s) on your roster a member of any professional bowler organization?
No____  Yes____  If yes, list names:_______________________________

Edited on 3/10/2008 1:16 PM
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south fl bowler

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Re: CHEATERS CAUGHT AT NATIONALS
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2008, 02:03:45 PM »
where does it say they can't bowl togetther??????
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bassace

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Re: CHEATERS CAUGHT AT NATIONALS
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2008, 02:17:02 PM »
quote:
where does it say they can't bowl togetther??????
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http://members.bowl.com/SearchUSBC/ViewMember.aspx?prefix=364&suffix=164
Member Details
"Aequam memento rebus in arduis servare mentem"


25. PROFESSIONAL BOWLERS
All USBC members are eligible to compete in the Tournament except as follows:
a. Any USBC member who was classified as an “EXEMPT PLAYER” on the
PBA Tour in the previous calendar year (January 1 - December 31) is
INELIGIBLE to bowl in any of the Regular or Classified Division events.
b. Any USBC member who was classified as an “EXEMPT PLAYER” on the
PBA Tour in the current calendar year (January 1 through participation
date) is INELIGIBLE to bowl in any of the Regular or Classified Division
events.
c. Others who are identified as professionals or who apply for membership in
any professional organization during the calendar year preceding the event
and up through their dates of competition shall be ELIGIBLE to bowl in
the regular division events (NOT THE CLASSIFIED DIVISION) as
follows:
1) Not more than TWO such players in a five-player TEAM line-up.
2) Not more than ONE such player in a two-player DOUBLES line-up.
3) Each such player shall be eligible to enter SINGLES & ALL-EVENTS.
Note: IT IS THE INDIVIDUAL BOWLERS RESPONSIBILITY TO VERIFY
THEIR ELIGIBILITY. The penalty for failure to comply with these eligibility
requirements is disqualification.
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riggs

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Re: CHEATERS CAUGHT AT NATIONALS
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2008, 09:28:35 PM »
9,598 would not be leading team all-events. Gaines' team had 9,600-something and there is another team that may have more. USBC computer issues are a problem in compiling these, I was told.
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Jorge300

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Re: CHEATERS CAUGHT AT NATIONALS
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2008, 08:28:37 AM »
In reading this I think it seems more like an honest mistake, then blatant cheating. I pesonally thought the rule was 1 year from the tournament date, so if you dropped your PBA card in March 07 and bowled in June 08 you would be ok. So it is quite possible that these gentlemen thought of the rule as I did, and did not know it was a full calendar year prior. The only shame is that it sounds like they had another team that they could have substituted players with in order to make the team legal. But bottomline is that it is the bowler's responsibility to know the rules and they messed up. You can't rely on the USBC to catch your mistake prior to bowling.

Riggs, one thing though, you are quick to jump on the fact that this infraction was an "honest mistake" but the person leading classified you call a sandbagger, should he not also be given the benefit of the doubt as this team was?
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Jorge300

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Re: CHEATERS CAUGHT AT NATIONALS
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2008, 08:44:59 AM »
After reading about this, I, too, would give them the benefit of the doubt and classify it as an honest mistake/misunderstanding the rules. The rest of the tournament participants should be satisfied that the USBC enforced the rules that everyone else is subject to.
 
The best scenario would have been to catch the problem before they bowled, which comes back on the USBC. IF the bowlers "misunderstood" the rule, then there needs to be SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS THE RULE to look at team eligibility, etc.  There is fault on both sides, in my opinion. Truly unfortunate...


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Brunswick Amateur Staff
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riggs

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Re: CHEATERS CAUGHT AT NATIONALS
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2008, 09:33:57 AM »
Jorge, I am the one that early on put forth the scenario that Kistler could be an "accidental" bagger, since no one has produced a history of bagging and winnings and what he did was so ridiculously blatant.

Also, just because it's an honest mistake does not mean I don't agree with the DQ of the Waliczeks' team.

BOTH THE TEAM AND KISTLER SHOULD BE DQ'd.

The difference here is from what I heard the Waliczeks' team took their medicine like professionals and men and accepted their DQ. Kistler if he was an honorable and honest man would by now have stepped forward and, at the least, asked to be put back in the Regular Division, IMHO.
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Jorge300

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Re: CHEATERS CAUGHT AT NATIONALS
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2008, 09:43:15 AM »
quote:
Jorge, I am the one that early on put forth the scenario that Kistler could be an "accidental" bagger, since no one has produced a history of bagging and winnings and what he did was so ridiculously blatant.

Also, just because it's an honest mistake does not mean I don't agree with the DQ of the Waliczeks' team.

BOTH THE TEAM AND KISTLER SHOULD BE DQ'd.

The difference here is from what I heard the Waliczeks' team took their medicine like professionals and men and accepted their DQ. Kistler if he was an honorable and honest man would by now have stepped forward and, at the least, asked to be put back in the Regular Division, IMHO.


Riggs,
      My apologies if I stated something wrong....I never meant that you didn't agree with the DQ. Just seemed to me that you jumped on the "honest mistake" for the Waliczek team and the sandbagger for the classified person. You are correct you did mention that it might be an "accident", I will give you credit where it is due.

Riggs I repsect what you have accomplished in your career both on and off the lanes in regards to bowling, and always look forward to your posts from nationals as I know I will be getting top nothc info. Just wanted to hear your take on it as it seemed like you jumped to different conclusions on these two topics, giving the "better" bowlers the benefit of the doubt. That is something I rarely see from you as you usually go out of your way to be very inclusive of all bowlers, regardless of ability.
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riggs

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Re: CHEATERS CAUGHT AT NATIONALS
« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2008, 10:06:31 AM »
Thanks Jorge.

I wanted to give the benefit of the doubt to Kistler, too, as evidence of my "accidental" bagger theory but after learning just how much he can win (I never paid that much attention to Classified stuff) and the fact that he has not stepped forward (that I've heard) makes me lean to the devious one-year cheater side of the ledger. Sadly.  

Plus, I know the Lonnie, Brian and the Murphys to one degree or another and can't imagine them doing that intentionally, besides the fact that I was told they had reported everything correctly and just didn't know the rule.
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jnb300

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Re: CHEATERS CAUGHT AT NATIONALS
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2008, 12:08:23 PM »
I was there whn they bowled team and their score is not posted for team and they had to do some changes to bowl singles and doubles I bowled the same squad in team event here is my point if they are DQualifed how can they still pay them all the bracket money that they won which they already paid 1 got back 1900 I cashed for 1130 and im sure i had them in some brackets there was a new person checking them in i was told oh by the way i had 619 in team 3 200s
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riggs

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Re: CHEATERS CAUGHT AT NATIONALS
« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2008, 12:23:22 PM »
The explanation is that only their TEAM score was disqualified - their INDIVIDUAL scores were NOT disqualified as they broke no rules INDIVIDUALLY. All 10 men on their two teams were eligible for the USBC; their mistake was in how they arranged their 10 guys and if they had known the rules or been told of their mistake they would have corrected it before they bowled by moving their 10 men around. But the same 10 still would have bowled on that pair. All 10 bowled doubles and singles and their all-events scores counted individually.
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