Some people claim that the scores in the USBC Open Tournament are way too high, and they point to the high number of honor scores in attempting to make that point.

However, once again this year, the OVERALL averages of the tournament field are far from "too high" (as the following breakdown of this year's USBC Open clearly indicate) ...

* REGULAR TEAM ... 173.6 (120,335 games)
* REGULAR DOUBLES/SINGLES ... 173.8 (233,203 games)
* CLASSIFIED TEAM ... 152.1 (34,054 games)
* CLASSIFIED DOUBLES/SINGLES ... 149.3 (73,765 games)
* TEAM (both divisions combined) ... 168.9
* DOUBLES/SINGLES (both divisions combined) ... 168.0
* OVERALL (all divisions, all events) ... 168.3 (461,357 games)

So as I've maintained on many occasions, whereas there are quite a few high scores, only a very few -- outside of the best players and shotmakers -- are able to score at a high level. The statistics speak for themselves.

Quote from: Joe Cool on February 26, 2014, 09:53:02 AM

If only the people with a chance to win go, you don't have a tournament to go to.

Joe, we already know the fantasy world you live in. One where the USBC can do everything for free and money grows on trees so the USBC doesn't have to worry about funding ever again. Just so we can fit the tournament into a shoebox center in a town that is close to you. So it is no surprise to me that you don't understand the points here. If you think you don't have chance, then you won't have a chance. If you think you can do well, there is more of a chance you will. It's very simple.

Just because I proved you wrong in the other thread, you don't have to bring it here pal.  You were wrong.  It's okay.  The world kept spinning.

For those that missed it, Jorge claims that the USBC needs every single thing that they require for someone to bid for the USBC tournament in order to hold the tournament.  We all know they don't, but Jorge still thinks they do.  They do need all those things to maximize their profits from the tournament, but the tournament is not about profits, it is about crowning a champion and competing.  If my "fantasy world" is expecting them to not use the tournament to support the fact that they can't control their finances in the organization, I can live with that.

Joe,
    Yes, that is YOUR fantasy world. Not sure how you "proved me wrong" when you ducked questions and never addressed points...but again this is your fantasy world that has nothing to do with reality. Let me make perfectly clear, so even you can understand it: In a perfect world, what you say is true, but in reality it doesn't work. Reality is no one, except you of course right, wants to pay higher membership fees. So because of the fact that the USBC hasn't raised fees in 5 years (or something close to that), and membership is declining, the money to actually run the business has to come from somewhere. Some of that comes from monies collected at the USBC tournament. It is a fact of life. Now, is it possible the USBC could cut some costs, probably, but neither you nor I can say that for certainty. So unless YOU Joe Cool are willing to fund the lost revenue through a higher membership fee.....the ancilliary items with the tournament need to be there. And I would suspect people would complain if they weren't there. Hopefully this sinks in this time....cause I am getting tired of repeating reality to you time and time again. Live in your fantasy world on your time, and leave these forums to adults to discuss real topics.

Pinbuster,
     I agree with your sentiment. But I think logistics get in the way. When the tournament is in Reno (which yes we know is a lot lately), they could do this. But the years the tournament is not, it would be very hard to release it that early. First they have to build the lanes in the convention center. Once that is done they put out a shot  and get local bowlers to come in and "test" the pattern (here again is where you can't keep it secret for those who complain about that). If they don't see the results they want, they may tweak the pattern a little, i.e. more/less volume, more/less length, etc. Only when they are happy do they settle on a pattern and release it. When in a convention center setting, you can't get in early enough to biuld the lanes and test patterns in order to release it that early. Since you can't do it those years, you can't do it any year. So it is released near the end of February each year. Speaking of which, has anyone heard when the release date is this year?

Pinbuster,
     I agree with your sentiment. But I think logistics get in the way. When the tournament is in Reno (which yes we know is a lot lately), they could do this. But the years the tournament is not, it would be very hard to release it that early. First they have to build the lanes in the convention center. Once that is done they put out a shot  and get local bowlers to come in and "test" the pattern (here again is where you can't keep it secret for those who complain about that). If they don't see the results they want, they may tweak the pattern a little, i.e. more/less volume, more/less length, etc. Only when they are happy do they settle on a pattern and release it. When in a convention center setting, you can't get in early enough to biuld the lanes and test patterns in order to release it that early. Since you can't do it those years, you can't do it any year. So it is released near the end of February each year. Speaking of which, has anyone heard when the release date is this year?

It's today when they release the pattern!

I agree on the early bowlers not having the fairest shake, but it is what it is. My group always goes in March, but we try to get as much knowledge as possible. Funny story- a few years ago I left Reno in 28th place in singles; I was so excited to actually break 700 (707). By the time I got home, I was down to 75th place.

It's just the way it goes. I like going early, it gets me a winter vacation, and I don't really like bowling in May or June like some of my friends do every year. If I did that, I'd miss my kids' baseball games, etc.

Quote from: Joe Cool on February 26, 2014, 03:15:29 PM

Just because I proved you wrong in the other thread, you don't have to bring it here pal.  You were wrong.  It's okay.  The world kept spinning.

For those that missed it, Jorge claims that the USBC needs every single thing that they require for someone to bid for the USBC tournament in order to hold the tournament.  We all know they don't, but Jorge still thinks they do.  They do need all those things to maximize their profits from the tournament, but the tournament is not about profits, it is about crowning a champion and competing.  If my "fantasy world" is expecting them to not use the tournament to support the fact that they can't control their finances in the organization, I can live with that.

Just to make it clear, I don't agree entirely with you Joe so you shouldn't say, "We all know...."

Fair enough.  Anybody smart enough to see what is really going on knows I'm right.  I stand corrected.

I wonder Joe, what should be the goal of the tournament?  To break even, operate at a loss or operate at a profit?

Certainly not to lose money or make money.  If USBC isn't self sufficient on its own, it needs to fix the issues that created that problem, not turn the tournament into the only thing keeping them afloat and where profit is the only thing that matters. 

Just an FYI about the pattern getting out if they tried to keep it secret.

The man who sets the pattern, bowls in the tournament.

You'd think there would be people crying foul if the pattern was a secret and his team magically won?