Author Topic: Fresh oil for all events starting in 2013? (Read 5271 times)

riggs · « **on:** May 05, 2011, 03:10:57 AM »

Here's how it can happen and what USBC says about the issue. Let's hope it happens!

http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/article_ff84330a-773f-11e0-9781-001cc4c03286.html

The No. 1 source for bowling news, analysis and opinion is my blog, The 11th Frame, which is here:
http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/

psaunders300 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 05, 2011, 06:32:09 PM »

I hope it happens, it will even the playing field for sure!

Thanks,
Paul Saunders
USBC Bronze Level Coach
http://bowling.psaunders.net

Tex · « **Reply #2 on:** May 09, 2011, 06:47:54 PM »

Mixed emotions on this for the Nats. I run two tournaments and do re-condition every squad. I do it so the D/S have the same condition and so the team event setting between the two has conditions that will last. We have 6 bowlers per pair on most pairs for one event and just 4 per pair on the other for D/S. We are also talking about doing this on a house condition, so volume is much less than Nationals and break down of the pattern occurs much faster.

So, if Nationals runs every squad. Do they just start putting out a house shot so scores will stay up or will they really run a tough condition. If they keep it wet, the lanes could still be broken down for team and scores stay up. It would just be the D/S that would get tougher and how good your singles shot would be still depends on who you follow. Those same people you follow now throwing plastic and urethane or 600 grit balls playing bad angles are still going to hose your singles event while the guy following the top guns is going to have a better shot and score. If you re-condition every squad should they also consider not switching lanes like many of the amatuer events have done, so you are not affected by anyone but yourself? That is how most of the events in Texas, including mine, do it now. Speeds up the squad and if you get a bad pair or make it bad, you live with it for all six games.

One thing it would do. You then would not have to worry about which D/S squad you bowl. Right now our number 1 choice is 5:30 and #2 is 11:30 pm... After teams have broken down the pattern. That way if you catch that good team in front of you, cashing in the tournament and brackets gets easier. Just common sense to me and look at where the big guns roll.

Roll with 900 Global.

Made in Texas!

JustRico · « **Reply #3 on:** May 09, 2011, 07:04:11 PM »

Fresh oil does NOT level the playing field or makes it fairer...you still have too many variables. Oiling them every squad can actually make them tougher due to the fronts disappaiting quicker and not getting off all the conditioner off the back part of the lane. Also you have residual friction or heat on the lane and that will make them lose oil in the fronts quicker....so oiling every squad is not a good thing.

The views and opinions expressed by myself are solely those of mine and NO one else, nor are they affiliated with anyone else.

tburky · « **Reply #4 on:** May 09, 2011, 07:21:09 PM »

only one way to find that out and it is to just do it and see what the scoring pace ends up. they may transition quicker and get tighter down lane.

Edited by tburky on 5/9/2011 at 7:25 PM

psaunders300 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 09, 2011, 07:22:09 PM »

Rico, Just curious why do you think this? Your statements do not back up your thinking. If a team in front of me opens up the lanes for my S&D then I now have an advantage. The lanes are now easier for me to score on than if I had a fresh shot. The opposite is true as well if a team in front of my S&D blows up the shot I have no chance of scoring.

JustRico wrote on 5/9/2011 7:04 PM:Fresh oil does NOT level the playing field or makes it fairer...you still have too many variables. Oiling them every squad can actually make them tougher due to the fronts disappaiting quicker and not getting off all the conditioner off the back part of the lane. Also you have residual friction or heat on the lane and that will make them lose oil in the fronts quicker....so oiling every squad is not a good thing.

The views and opinions expressed by myself are solely those of mine and NO one else, nor are they affiliated with anyone else.

Thanks,
Paul Saunders
USBC Bronze Level Coach
http://bowling.psaunders.net

Edited by psaunders300 on 5/9/2011 at 7:22 PM

JustRico · « **Reply #6 on:** May 09, 2011, 07:46:01 PM »

Ok so my remarks DO back up my thinking...I just gave you why reoiling every squad...possibly what 5-6 times a day is bad...have you ever bowled at your center on a normal basis...have them re-oil once a day MORE for a week and just see how much different they are...just adding one re-oil.

Now the flip side, if you get a team of 5 (10 on the pair) that is throwing sanded heavy grit equipment, they will blow the front open as well as creating a lot more abnormal friction in the front part of the lane. If you come on after them, yes they may be tough but you can more than likely use smoother surface equipment and play the track.

But instead you re-oil and all that will do is remove more of the oil that is in the fronts and by adding oil on top of the burned fronts will only make they disappaite quicker and if the lane is not COMPLETELY stripped (which it won't be) of all the oil, conditioner will be left in the middles, as well as the back part of the lane...earlier hook and carry down as the days go on...

You have obviously not bowled in a tournament that strips the lanes that many times a day for that long of a period of time. Conditioner is placed on the lane to protect the surface...you strip them that much all you will accomplish is softening the front part of the lane and as the event goes on, the scores will go down. It's a plastic surface...it will burn.

The views and opinions expressed by myself are solely those of mine and NO one else, nor are they affiliated with anyone else.

icefiction · « **Reply #7 on:** May 09, 2011, 08:09:52 PM »

Rico, what in your opinion would be the fairest setup for a large scale and large time frame tournament like this?

JustRico · « **Reply #8 on:** May 09, 2011, 08:21:07 PM »

Honestly you are never going to have a fair situation....but in all honestly, when I bowled this event...you had fresh oil squads and break down squads and they were back to back. You either bowled team event on fresh or the squad after. Same with dbls & sngls...you had 2 squads of fresh and similar with break down. You knew what you were getting and everyone was fine with it.

The PBA went to fresh oil both sqauds...that does not create squad equity. There are too many variables. Who is in front of you. Where they start as opposed to where you start. What you use as opposed to what you use from the start. Rev rates.

No matter what you do you are never going to appease everyone.

The views and opinions expressed by myself are solely those of mine and NO one else, nor are they affiliated with anyone else.

icefiction · « **Reply #9 on:** May 09, 2011, 08:26:08 PM »

So how did the whole move lanes after each game thing get started, cause it kind of seems like the only fairish way is each person gets their own lane and bowls their set amount of games and thats it?

Russell · « **Reply #10 on:** May 09, 2011, 09:30:53 PM »

Im okay with this personally as long as they give adequate time to warm up for d/s. I'm sure USBC will do everything but that, and people likee me will continue to shoot 540 every year trying to get comfortable.

Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

psaunders300 · « **Reply #11 on:** May 10, 2011, 04:52:39 AM »

Rico, they already oil the lanes at the USBC tourney 3 times a day. What I am wondering is why you think reoiling them several more times a day would make that much of a difference? I have bowled in the USBC for many years (including at all times from the fresh 7 AM S&D squad to the 11:40 NOT fresh S&D squad) and many other tounaments with various oiling schedules including PBA events. In addition I bowl in PBA leagues where the lanes are reoiled several times a day so I have some experience with this. I think having a fresh shot will be better than the schedule for oiling that is in place now because everyone will have the same shot to start for each event.

We can agree to dis-agree and I am fine with that, and I appreciate you comments and opinion, thank you for your perspective!

I am also going to ask several friends that are laneman at three different houses that I bowl at and see what they think because now you've got me curious...

Thanks,
Paul Saunders
USBC Bronze Level Coach
http://bowling.psaunders.net

Edited by psaunders300 on 5/10/2011 at 2:56 PM

riggs · « **Reply #12 on:** May 10, 2011, 06:31:01 AM »

RICO, nothing personal but I can't say it any other way except that the amount of mis-information in your statements is so appalling I wouldn't even know how to address it all.

One thing that IS CERTAIN is that for every squad they re-oil the lanes WILL BE COMPLETELY STRIPPED. This is done for every oiling now (twice before the 7 a.m. squad when they have time overnight) and it will be done for every oiling if they go to all fresh.

To compare a PBA event where people move pairs every game to the USBC Open Championships is nonsensical.

Sigh.

The No. 1 source for bowling news, analysis and opinion is my blog, The 11th Frame, which is here:
http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/

riggs · « **Reply #13 on:** May 10, 2011, 06:32:21 AM »

It is NOT about whether scores are higher or lower. It IS about having a level playing field STARTING every squad of every event for every player as best as is humanly possible.

The No. 1 source for bowling news, analysis and opinion is my blog, The 11th Frame, which is here:
http://host.madison.com/sports/recreation/bowling/

JustRico · « **Reply #14 on:** May 10, 2011, 06:51:00 AM »

Riggs

Since you have so eloquently stated

'nothing personal but I can't say it any other way except that the amount of mis-information in your statements is so appalling I wouldn't even know how to address it all'

I would really like you to address it....I have quite a bit of experience in areas where tournaments have been ran where the lanes are stripped more than the bowling center is used to and it is quite interesting how the lanes respond. When a center or lane bed is used to be stripped a certain amount of times...it creates a memory. When you change that, it effects the lane surface as well as the characteristics of the lanes.

On top of that, when you oiling and stripping a lane at the rate USBC will be, they will not remove all the conditioner on the lanes throughout the day. It will NOT be a level playing field, as the day goes on as well as the tournament goes on.

Now if you want to merely leave it as your blanket statement...fine. I will refrain from making this a personal attack on you, which is what your statement is on me....I have a fairly extensive background other than merely writing an article and reporting what others write....

The views and opinions expressed by myself are solely those of mine and NO one else, nor are they affiliated with anyone else.

Author Topic: Fresh oil for all events starting in 2013? (Read 5271 times)

riggs

Fresh oil for all events starting in 2013?

psaunders300

Re: Fresh oil for all events starting in 2013?

Tex

Re: Fresh oil for all events starting in 2013?

JustRico

Re: Fresh oil for all events starting in 2013?

tburky

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psaunders300

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JustRico

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icefiction

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JustRico

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icefiction

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Russell

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psaunders300

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riggs

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riggs

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JustRico

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