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Author Topic: Have at it....USBC Open Changes  (Read 19164 times)

Radical In RI

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Have at it....USBC Open Changes
« on: October 27, 2015, 10:53:22 AM »
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HankScorpio

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Re: Have at it....USBC Open Changes
« Reply #31 on: October 28, 2015, 12:14:35 AM »
Quote from: northface28 on October 27, 2015, 09:39:42 PM
Quote from: cory867 on October 27, 2015, 11:38:43 AM
not a fan of the division change.  All that is saying is "hey, I can't compete with the best so make it so I don't have to."  To me this devalues the eagle a little.

What? This makes the eagle that much more special. The pool you must defeat is much stronger.

The top teams are still exactly the same. It's no tougher to win an eagle than it was before, the same score would still win.
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Pinbuster

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Re: Have at it....USBC Open Changes
« Reply #32 on: October 28, 2015, 06:18:31 AM »
I have mixed emotions.

Assuming prize money will stay within divisions it just made it a lot harder to cash in the top division.

Assuming bracket money stays within divisions it just made brackets a lot less lucrative for the top bowlers.

The women's open has had several divisions for sometime now. And the last I heard participation in the women's event was down drastically.

It does open up another can of worms on average maintenance and raises expenses to run the tournament for average verification.

It does give the mid range averages a better chance at cashing and/or winning an event. However just like the classified division I really don't think they should be eagles. Maybe a dove or a buzzard. :)
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Gene J Kanak

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Re: Have at it....USBC Open Changes
« Reply #33 on: October 28, 2015, 10:31:21 AM »
I understand what they're trying to do, and I think that most of the changes will bring about positive outcomes. I still wish that they'd give you SOME pattern info so that you didn't feel like you had to bring your whole darned arsenal. Then again, I have brought 6 balls the past few years, and I've generally used 2-3 at most, so I suppose that hasn't been a huge issue. I also wish that they'd consider classifying people based upon their tournament average (maybe after 5-10 years of participation) rather than house-shot averages because most people who book 210+ on house don't necessarily repeat that level in that environment. Then again, I guess it's their fault for bowling on easy house shots. Still, in the end, I think more good will come from the changes than bad.
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ksucat

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Re: Have at it....USBC Open Changes
« Reply #34 on: October 28, 2015, 11:46:40 AM »
They are trying to boost entries.  More bowlers helps spread out expenses and provides bigger incentive for cities to host event.  I'm sure there's other ideas they want to do, but will make at later date. 

I talked with one of the guys working the Bowlers Journal a couple years ago and he indicated they were looking at using USBC tournament averages for that event as it is more representative of what the bowler is capable of.  I'd love to see tournament average used for divisions in the USBC Open as well.  Minimum of 21 games to be eligible.  The average categories may need adjusting to fairly equally distribute people.  I live in bowling community and we only have 1 sport league available right now that I know of, so true averages aren't easy to obtain. 
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Coach castle

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Re: Have at it....USBC Open Changes
« Reply #35 on: October 28, 2015, 11:54:18 AM »
Using usbc tournament average would be a good idea. I think the division 's would be very equel .
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Southern California Bowl

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Re: Have at it....USBC Open Changes
« Reply #36 on: October 28, 2015, 12:37:50 PM »
Why not reduce the cost of each squad to $10 per squad and get rid of the prize money. Also, get rid of the brackets and make is so that way people just show up for the chance at winning the eagles.
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txbowler

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Re: Have at it....USBC Open Changes
« Reply #37 on: October 28, 2015, 03:11:03 PM »
Quote from: Southern California Bowl on October 28, 2015, 12:37:50 PM
Why not reduce the cost of each squad to $10 per squad and get rid of the prize money. Also, get rid of the brackets and make is so that way people just show up for the chance at winning the eagles.

I certainly hope you are being sarcastic?  Otherwise, enjoy bowling your one squad of team because that's all you will need.  Yes, there are a few who are honestly bowling for an eagle and nothing more.  The rest, it's mostly about the money if you gave them "truth syrup".
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txbowler

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Re: Have at it....USBC Open Changes
« Reply #38 on: October 28, 2015, 03:24:49 PM »
It stuns me on some of the replies here.  But I should be used to it.

BOWLERS ARE SELFISH!!!!!

You want 5-10% of the your consumer to tell you how to run your business because it will save the sport.  Of course you do, it's not your money. 

10% of bowlers: USBC should mandate tougher lane conditions. 
Owner: That will drive away consumers.
10% of bowler:  But it is for the sport. 
Owner: But it will cost me money.  You gonna make up for it.
10% of bowler:  Ummm no.

USBC - New division at open championships
same 10% of bowlers - WAIT - WHAT???
USBC - Brackets by division too
same 10% of bowlers - hey that's costing me money
USBC - Better for majority of bowlers
same 10% of bowlers - where's my free money, U gonna make up for it?
USBC - Ummm No.

How does it feel now that the loss of money applies to you?  You were all for it, when the changes didn't cost you money.  Now they do.

Welcome to life.  Sometimes the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

 

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soonerdallas

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Re: Have at it....USBC Open Changes
« Reply #39 on: October 28, 2015, 04:55:57 PM »
I need to clear up something on my stance on brackets. I don't care that I'm losing bowlers to another division and won't be bowling up against them. I Care about how many brackets I would be losing per squad. I just want there to be a full set of brackets is all, I would prefer my whole squad to be guys averaging in the 210 or over division because if I know if I throw it to my ability it will be a good day. And in order to roll a squad at the open championships your going to have to beat every 230+ Average bowler in that squad and that makes a guy at 205 I very small part of that equation. I know not everyone's stance on that is the same but that's just my thoughts.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 06:57:53 PM by soonerdallas »
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milorafferty

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Re: Have at it....USBC Open Changes
« Reply #40 on: October 28, 2015, 05:05:12 PM »
Quote from: soonerdallas on October 28, 2015, 04:55:57 PM
I need to clear up something on my stance on brackets. I don't care that I'm losing bowlers to another division and won't be bowling up against them. I Care about how many brackets I would be losing per squad. I just want there to be a full set of brackets is all, I would prefer my whole squad to be guys averaging in the 210 or over division because if I know if I throw it to my ability it will be a good day. And in order to roll a squad at the open championships your going to have to beat every 230+ bowler in that squad and that makes a guy at 205 I very small part of that equation. I know not everyone's stance on that is the same but that's just my thoughts.

I think you are right about this. I know I won't be playing brackets anymore. I'm a 220ish house hack who averages around 190ish in sport shot leagues. When there are a lot of foolish THS fish in the pond, I'm more than willing to cast my line in brackets, but this will be the last year I do. I don't intend to be the smallest fish in the pond and I'm not giving my money away

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AMF300bowler

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Re: Have at it....USBC Open Changes
« Reply #41 on: October 29, 2015, 11:42:54 AM »
Cry, Cry, cry. I won't be able to spend $1,600 in brackets any more. Oh, boo hoo.

Money has corrupted bowling so bad it's pathetic. I love to bowl and winning money is just a bonus. At one time you felt the same way, too. Maybe you should try it again. You just might find bowling is fun, again.
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Olderdude

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Re: Have at it....USBC Open Changes
« Reply #42 on: October 29, 2015, 11:54:58 AM »
I think that is the biggest complaint.  People will cry about not being able to compete blah blah blah.  What they are really saying is I can no longer beat up on the 181 guy so I'm not going any more.  I'm 25 pins above the cut line and like you my tourney average is below my house average.  I'll still bowl because I am a bowler and this is my sports Open Championship and I'll still throw money in brackets but it wont be as much.

This will be good for a lot of people, just not as good for the 211-215 guys.  I'm sure they all felt bad for 181-185 guys too.

Lace em up and lets bowl
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milorafferty

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Re: Have at it....USBC Open Changes
« Reply #43 on: October 29, 2015, 12:52:10 PM »
Quote from: AMF300bowler on October 29, 2015, 11:42:54 AM
Cry, Cry, cry. I won't be able to spend $1,600 in brackets any more. Oh, boo hoo.

Money has corrupted bowling so bad it's pathetic. I love to bowl and winning money is just a bonus. At one time you felt the same way, too. Maybe you should try it again. You just might find bowling is fun, again.

You do know that brackets are optional, right?
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Jorge300

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Re: Have at it....USBC Open Changes
« Reply #44 on: October 29, 2015, 01:04:51 PM »
My only complaint about the changes, is not releasing the pattern info. Do they think all bowlers are deaf mutes? It now comes down to who you know. Those of you supporting it, do you not think the tight knit bowling community in Wisconsin will talk amongst itself once people are back from Vegas? Do you not think the bowlers who work in the USBC offices who, well not being eligible to win money, won't talk, email or text their friends to give them info on the pattern? And I guarantee not all the people they talk to will be in the Regular division. So you are still going to have people practicing on the pattern, recreating it to achieve an advantage....only now it will an even smaller subset of bowlers then the ones who do it now giving those select few an immeasurable advantage. Any one who supports this part of the change is crazy if they think no one will know the pattern before they bowl....instead of everyone knowing it as it stands now. 
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Jorge300

bradl

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Re: Have at it....USBC Open Changes
« Reply #45 on: October 29, 2015, 01:35:25 PM »
Quote from: Jorge300 on October 29, 2015, 01:04:51 PM
My only complaint about the changes, is not releasing the pattern info. Do they think all bowlers are deaf mutes? It now comes down to who you know. Those of you supporting it, do you not think the tight knit bowling community in Wisconsin will talk amongst itself once people are back from Vegas? Do you not think the bowlers who work in the USBC offices who, well not being eligible to win money, won't talk, email or text their friends to give them info on the pattern? And I guarantee not all the people they talk to will be in the Regular division. So you are still going to have people practicing on the pattern, recreating it to achieve an advantage....only now it will an even smaller subset of bowlers then the ones who do it now giving those select few an immeasurable advantage. Any one who supports this part of the change is crazy if they think no one will know the pattern before they bowl....instead of everyone knowing it as it stands now.

Have to agree somewhat here, as this will bring back the old school method of scouting. Someone will be sent to the tournament to scout out the conditions (based on someone bowling well), and report back to their groups on what they saw. The livestream made that easier, along with us being able to get a glimpse into the atmosphere that the tournament provides, but we know that a lot of people use it to prep for their time on the lanes. While it for the most provides no advantage or disadvantage (either everyone sees the pattern in play, or no-one sees the pattern in play), providing no stream at all hands the advantage back to those who can afford a scout at the lanes.

I know that for 2017, one certain team has a person living in Vegas who could easily head out to South Point, look at the pattern in depth for days on end, and report back everything they see to their team. I can see that happening with a number of teams.

BL.
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