Author Topic: How about a 3rd Division? (Read 4097 times)

DukeHarding · « **on:** July 15, 2009, 12:36:12 PM »

We have a CLASSIFIED, we have a REGULAR Division....
Why Not a 3rd Division, for the guys that we know that us mere mortals can't compete against?

Let's call it, say the "TOP GUN" Division.

How many bowlers who average 200-210 on a THS can compete with the guys who are on the top of the leaderboard?

I'm not taking anything away from those bowlers... I know in my wildest dreams I couldn't shoot anywhere near what they shoot.

Any thoughts?

I've had 10-15 bowlers who bowled this year, bring up the same idea....
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Duke Harding

If Bowling had a Mount Rushmore, Bill Taylor should be George Washington.

Russell · « **Reply #1 on:** July 15, 2009, 08:54:35 PM »

If you start giving too many Eagles away they lose their luster.

I would also hate to see how long it would take the sandbaggers to realize they could average 205 in league and only have to shoot 2000 at Natls to win an Eagle.
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http://www.myspace.com/rlrussell

Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

notsohotshot · « **Reply #2 on:** July 15, 2009, 09:35:04 PM »

Yeah but why do all of us 190-210 house bowlers have to pay our money to support the pros both men and women that are allowed to bowl?All we can do on a regular basis is contribute our money. Most of us have not had a chance to bowl on the type conditions that are put out there and for everyone to bowl on different oiled conditions makes it even less fair.
When I bowled s&d this year I bowled on 3rd shift with burnt up lanes that I could not even get the ball thru the heads much less the mids before it went left yet I watched other squads that had a decent area to play.I started by swinging the ball 25 to 10 just to have any chance to score and it got worse from there.

Urethane Game · « **Reply #3 on:** July 15, 2009, 09:45:09 PM »

How about just doing split the pot for an Eagle? Just because the NFL has parity doesn't mean bowling should. I think some of the megabucks had problems with their 205 and under divisions.

Doesn't anyone want to get better and actually compete with the guys who are winning all of the hardware? If you feel like you're donating to the better players then don't bowl.
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Classic Rock and Blues Net Radio

scotts33 · « **Reply #4 on:** July 15, 2009, 09:54:23 PM »

Those that are not REAL scratch bowlers (ie. bowl regularly on sport condition leagues, PBAX leagues, etc.) are "idiots" if bowling Natl's. UNLESS they are going for a vacation.

Do you really think you are going to walk away with decent $$$ if you aren't among the bowlers that understand equipment, lane conditions, how to break down a pair with a team, shoot spares dead straight, vary a trajectory from playing the twig to getting inside of the 5th arrow to 8 board at the break point, etc.

?? Do you want to bowl on a THS at Natl's?

You are giving $$$ to the elite bowlers that are taking it from you. They know that now you should understand that. Dumb bunny's!

Good gawd I don't bowl Natl's anymore I know I am not that good. Sheesh take it as a vacation and leave it at that. Otherwise quit your whining. I'd never want to see it as a hdcp. tourney.

BTW.....this is how ABC/USBC keeps going.....it's NOT off your sanctions dues it's off you folks that keep on bowling Natl's. Wake up and smell the coffee!

This Nat'l tourney dies and USBC dies. Duh!

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Scott

DukeHarding · « **Reply #5 on:** July 15, 2009, 10:42:32 PM »

quote:
How about just doing split the pot for an Eagle? Just because the NFL has parity doesn't mean bowling should. I think some of the megabucks had problems with their 205 and under divisions.

Doesn't anyone want to get better and actually compete with the guys who are winning all of the hardware? If you feel like you're donating to the better players then don't bowl.
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Classic Rock and Blues Net Radio

That's about where I'm at...at 62....not bowling.

I don't have a chance of winning.

I shot 667 in doubles. Shot 1778 AE, I was 2nd high out of bowlers on our 2 teams.
I bowled with some good THS bowlers, who didn't break 1600.
I ran out of steam the last 2 games in singles.

How about making classified limit 190, not 180?

I'd like it to be a little fairer foor the average bowler.

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Duke Harding

If Bowling had a Mount Rushmore, Bill Taylor should be George Washington.

mrbowlingnut · « **Reply #6 on:** July 15, 2009, 11:11:51 PM »

Nationals taught me alot, i now realize how bad I am so wasting money on that will never happen again. Only if back in Vegas and sub board for free, at least the team i subbed for got some pins better than none lol

DukeHarding · « **Reply #7 on:** July 15, 2009, 11:30:03 PM »

quote:
Those that are not REAL scratch bowlers (ie. bowl regularly on sport condition leagues, PBAX leagues, etc.) are "idiots" if bowling Natl's. UNLESS they are going for a vacation.

Do you really think you are going to walk away with decent $$$ if you aren't among the bowlers that understand equipment, lane conditions, how to break down a pair with a team, shoot spares dead straight, vary a trajectory from playing the twig to getting inside of the 5th arrow to 8 board at the break point, etc.?? Do you want to bowl on a THS at Natl's?

You are giving $$$ to the elite bowlers that are taking it from you. They know that now you should understand that. Dumb bunny's!

Good gawd I don't bowl Natl's anymore I know I am not that good. Sheesh take it as a vacation and leave it at that. Otherwise quit your whining. I'd never want to see it as a hdcp. tourney.

BTW.....this is how ABC/USBC keeps going.....it's NOT off your sanctions dues it's off you folks that keep on bowling Natl's. Wake up and smell the coffee!

This Nat'l tourney dies and USBC dies. Duh!

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Scott

Scott,

I've been bowling it since 1967...
Maybe it's time to join my buddy Jim Scott, and sit on the side lines?
Or contribute to Sr. PBA events?

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Duke Harding

How is it that, people who oppose the government running any large corporation, favor the government's control of the military?

Pinbuster · « **Reply #8 on:** July 16, 2009, 06:36:33 AM »

Personally I think they should do away with the classified division. At the vary least not give them eagles, give them buzzards instead.

You already have calls of sandbagging every year in the classified division. It would only get worse if they had even more divisions. It would become impossible to police.

But this is suppose to be a tournament to crown natioanl champions. I don't believe Tennis or Golf have divisions in their open championships.

As long as we bowl for money this situation will exist. And most bowlers insist on bowling for money so you have to put up with the players who are professionals in every term of the word but are not exempt on the PBA tour.

I understand your frustration. I know I really don't have a chance to win and we really are not any competition to most of the big dogs.

But I go for the competition and the vacation. Hopefully I pick up a small check to defray the cost some.

riggs · « **Reply #9 on:** July 16, 2009, 08:21:05 AM »

This sort of thing wouldn't be a big deal to me.

But you need to realize that you already have the Classified Division being decimated every year by sandbaggers and any intermediate division also would meet the same fate.

DukeHarding · « **Reply #10 on:** July 16, 2009, 09:27:30 AM »

quote:
This sort of thing wouldn't be a big deal to me.

But you need to realize that you already have the Classified Division being decimated every year by sandbaggers and any intermediate division also would meet the same fate.

riggs,

I missed being put into Classified by 3 pins.
In 2007-08 I averaged (sub) 180 for 24 games.
January of 08-09 I was at 193.

I came back from injuries, this past year.
I would have been tied for 10th place AE...

My averages wold have looked suspicious, and I would have been labeled a bagger.
I wouldn't have bowled Classified, I would have considered it cheating.
I wonder how many of the sandbaggers, are just guys coming off of injuries, or bowlers having a great, once in a lifetime tournament.

I think a lot of bowlers would like to cash for a bigger chunk of cash, not win an eagle.

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Duke Harding

How is it that, people who oppose the government running any large corporation, favor the government's control of the military?

nutsforbowling · « **Reply #11 on:** July 16, 2009, 10:17:18 AM »

I think going to Reno 3 out of the next 4 years will lower the entries more than any cheating, or lack of chance to cash high would. After next year my team is taking a break, and we don't know if we are going to go to Orlando or not.

By the way, has anyone heard if they are actually going to BUILD the center in Orlando? The economy is not getting any better, and I wonder what happens if they can't get it done? The women are in Reno in 2012, so where do we go then?
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Me stupid. Me believe anything. Please tell me what to do.

scotts33 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 16, 2009, 10:23:50 AM »

BTW Duke H. my comments were only meant for the whole picture of the Nat'l tournament.

I am with Pinbuster, I'd do away with the Classified Div. also.

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Scott

DukeHarding · « **Reply #13 on:** July 16, 2009, 10:43:48 AM »

quote:
BTW Duke H. my comments were only meant for the whole picture of the Nat'l tournament.

I am with Pinbuster, I'd do away with the Classified Div. also.

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Scott

Getting rid of the Divisions wouldn't be a bad idea.
I bowl with a few Classified bowlers, who still think the tournament is handicap...after bowling it for 4-5 years.
They probably wouldn't know the difference...they never have received a check, it's a nice vacation for them, nothing else.
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Duke Harding

How is it that, people who oppose the government running any large corporation, favor the government's control of the military?

Minnesota Don · « **Reply #14 on:** July 16, 2009, 11:16:05 AM »

Next year will be my 24th tournament out of 25 years of going to the big dance. We take two teams each year and mostly to enjoy the experience and have a nice trip. I don't expect to make any money but I would like to be competitive and would support a change to do so.

My team mates and I are solid 210-220 bowlers on most THS and tournament shots, we want this shot to be as difficult as possible. I believe the pattern should not be advertised to have practice shots made. With the National patterns and scheduling the overwhelming number of the 50,000 + bowlers that bowl each year are not in the upper levels of those who end up in the top 100 or so places each year. Most, if not all sports have divisions or classifications to separate the competitors. Why not at the Nationals? Better yet why even have a cutoff for the HDCP division? Have a scratch and hdcp and let the teams decide which they would like to enter? If the classified can be verified for averages why not all who want to enter? To be honest I would like to see three if not four divisions. Something like a Super, Elite, Regular and a Classified.

Super could be for anyone who has a pro card, won a regional or placed in the top 100 of a National in the last 5 years. Elite would be 220 and above, never been a pro? Regular 200-220 and classified would be 100% handicap. Averages and any of the classifications/placements can be made to suit the masses but let's get real, most of the upper average bowlers and teams probably would not travel every year if the $$ were not in tournament. I like to cash as much as anyone else but I don't go to this for the prize fund and most of the hard core bowlers don't either. The tournament should be run to cover the cost, some from dues and some from entries but it should be run as a service to the bowlers who supported the USBC all year. We pay some pretty good salaries to people who don't appear to be supporting the average bowler any more?

Many of us would go to compete for the Eagle alone and write the cost off as a vacation. Bring the tournament back to the core of the bowlers who actually support this tournament. You want to make big $$ go to the other tournaments but this should be more about supporting the average everyday league bowler.

This was a bit long but I think many of us feel the same. It will not be an easy fix as the economy suffers and the number of entries keep falling. I would also like to see this tournament travel more than to the same 4-5 cities we seem to be locked into.

Author Topic: How about a 3rd Division? (Read 4097 times)

DukeHarding

How about a 3rd Division?

Russell

Re: How about a 3rd Division?

notsohotshot

Re: How about a 3rd Division?

Urethane Game

Re: How about a 3rd Division?

scotts33

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DukeHarding

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mrbowlingnut

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DukeHarding

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Pinbuster

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riggs

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DukeHarding

Re: How about a 3rd Division?

nutsforbowling

Re: How about a 3rd Division?

scotts33

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DukeHarding

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Minnesota Don

Re: How about a 3rd Division?