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Author Topic: Just Returned from Reno  (Read 6201 times)

TWOHAND834

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Just Returned from Reno
« on: May 11, 2013, 10:30:03 PM »
For the first time in as long as I can remember, my look was god awful.  Going in, there was the unknown of how your ball is going to roll with the new Ice oil.  Now I know why they call it Ice.  For the first 30-35 feet, my ball rolled like it was on ice.  Even with my Enigma at 2000 abralon fresh from the booth, the ball would not read the pattern and would not bleed any energy before it got to the end of the pattern.

I had that ball at 3000 and did bowl at Showcase earlier in the day.  At 3000, the ball was longer than I wanted.  So when I went to the EBI booth, I specified a fresh 2000 pad and the ball looked pretty dull.  So I figured I was good to go. Ummmm....not so much.  Ball would still not read the pattern.  I fought the reaction and left 5 splits the first game for 120.  Yep......a fantastic 120.  Biggest reason for me shooting a 120, was that I tried to do what was best for the team and stay right.  Any other team I would have moved a little farther left.  But we just cant stress enough the "right way" to break them down......SMH. 

By the third game of team event, my look got increasingly better.  However, there is this thing called carry and I just didnt have it.  I started 3rd game going strike, pocket 7-10, stuff 9, stuff 9, strike, stuff 10 and shot 179ish to shoot in the 480s I believe.  For the first time I went in with the "team first to break them down correctly" mentality and all it did was break me down.  By far the worst nationals score wise I have ever had and it wasnt even close. 

In Minors:  had a pretty decent look but still not great.  I shot 203 clean the first game and thought that it was more like it and something I could build on.  Ummmmm......not so much.  Had a few guys start out playing 4th arrow (idiots) and by the end of doubles, track was hooking alot and middle was already going away.  Needless to say, the new oil did not hold up much at all.  Track was very fried up by the end of doubles with singles still to go.  Seemed like every 3 frames, I had to do a 3 and 2 move to keep the ball off the nose.  By the end of singles, I was playing 27-28 at the arrows and just praying I had the speed to get the ball to push and stay right of the headpin.

All in all I believe I shot in the 1550-1560 area.  I went 480, 504?, and 550.  If I had to do it all over again, here is what i would do:   Take a ball with a 2000 abralon finish but with a 2 inch pin to PAP to control the backend for team event and a ball at 4000 with polish also with a 2 inch pin to PAP for minors. 

The people I saw with the best look were guys with very end over end type of ball roll and coverstocks with quite a bit of surface; more towards 1000 abralon as opposed to 2000 or more.  The best look I saw my whole trip was a guy throwing a DV8 Marauder Madness at 1000 abralon with about a 450 rev rate playing up 5-6-7 around 18mph.  He made the lanes for team event look really easy.  After that he moved in to about 10-11 with a Diva at what looked like box finish.  Guys with alot of tilt had a really hard time because their equipment wanted to go 50 feet before doing much of anything.  If I do go back to Reno next year, I am specifically punching up two balls with 2 inch pins with this new oil.   

As far as how different the Showcase Lanes are to the lanes upstairs, they were closer to being similar than what we saw last year in B.R.  We had way more hook on the team event lanes than what we saw on the Showcase Lanes.  This year, the ball reactions were much closer to being exactly the same. 

Highlight of the trip.......I got to watch the Legend bowl the Journal....Robert Mushtare.  LOL!!!!  Not only that, but bowling the same squad at the Journal was another 900 Series guy, Tony Roventini.  Got to see 2 guys with certified 900s bowl along side Matt McNeil and also saw Tish Johnson at the Journal as well my last night there.
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Polish_Hammer

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Re: Just Returned from Reno
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2013, 07:56:42 AM »
Thanks for the report. I bowl next Thursaday and the minors has me more worried then the team for just what you said. "guys jumpping in too earlyand blowing up the hold." I have medium speed and can be pretty heavy handed if needed but when I need to jump way left and give it speed that's where my game blows up. I wasn't planning to bring anything with polish but may need something with polish by singles. 

chrisleftwich

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Re: Just Returned from Reno
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2013, 08:26:14 AM »
I was complete opposite with this years two different shots.  For me Team hooked more than years past, I brought a 1000 grit pin down Enigma and after first game it was hooking too much and had to change to a 2000 grit Oath. 
S/D shot did play a little harder as it was really speed sensitive for me, lots of hook, but if you go too fast it would slide through breakpoint and too slow it would over hook. 
Polish_Hammer - I would recommend a pearl ball with 4000 grit on it for when the lanes break down in S/D.  I would avoid polish as you will get a over under reaction. 
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TWOHAND834

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Re: Just Returned from Reno
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2013, 08:48:53 AM »
I was complete opposite with this years two different shots.  For me Team hooked more than years past, I brought a 1000 grit pin down Enigma and after first game it was hooking too much and had to change to a 2000 grit Oath. 
S/D shot did play a little harder as it was really speed sensitive for me, lots of hook, but if you go too fast it would slide through breakpoint and too slow it would over hook. 
Polish_Hammer - I would recommend a pearl ball with 4000 grit on it for when the lanes break down in S/D.  I would avoid polish as you will get a over under reaction. 

There was a guy in one of the booths that said it depended ALOT on which side of the stadium you bowled; that on the lower end, they hooked a bit more than say if you were on 51-52.  He said that basically 1-28 hooked more than 29-40, which hooked more than 41 to the wall simply because over the years the higher end did not get near the traffic that the lower end got.  I bowled my team event on 47-48 I believe and S/D on 55-56.  In the roughly 5 times I have bowled at the Stadium, I have seen the lower end of the center 1 time and that was for singles and doubles about 5 years ago (lanes 7-8 I believe).  Every other times I have been on lanes in the 40s and 50s.  Its also ironic that my highest set in that place occurred when I bowled singles on the lower end.

Also........I want to add that on one single team squad (3:00 on May 9), there were 3 teams that shot over 3300.  One team was down around 9-10 and the other two were on the same pair around 35-36.  Nobody on any pair on the high end shot much of anything.  Most people seemed to struggle.
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chrisleftwich

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Re: Just Returned from Reno
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2013, 09:48:59 AM »
hmmm that is interesting for sure, We bowled on 17-18 and bowled on 23-24 for singles/doubles, so you might be right.  very good incite though and I am very interested to see what others say about this as that would be a huge difference.
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Dave81644

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Re: Just Returned from Reno
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2013, 03:22:05 PM »
I had 4 weeks of league on the team shot and 4 weeks on the minors pattern
and we were a "ice" test center (we found that out later)

I found that you really had to roll the ball off your hand well or i saw the same thing you described. ended up drilling a pin down arson low flare, took it to 2000 dull and played right up 9-10, but, if I didn't emphasize the roll, it did not matter what ball i had.

the new oil doesn't transition as fast for sure, but one knucklehead swinging it across the pattern ruined the shot for all
Just my .02 worth

billdozer

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Re: Just Returned from Reno
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2013, 05:51:32 PM »
I just finished...my big problem was execution.  League has been over for weeks and little stuff was getting I side my head.  Great shot...great bowlers will really do well...very happy with the shot...I always like reno though! 
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storm making it rain

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Re: Just Returned from Reno
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2013, 12:56:32 PM »
TwoHand,

Can you comment at all on the BJ tourney?  We made a reservation to bowl on the fresh for that tourney to get some minor event practice in.

We also will be getting a practice session at home on the Team pattern as my center got a sample of the ICE conditioner, although we have AMF HPL lanes (which generally "hook" a bit more.

My plan (as of today) is a Disturbed at 2000. a Heat Hybrid at 4000, a Crossroad at box, and a Lights Out at box.

TWOHAND834

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Re: Just Returned from Reno
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2013, 02:01:39 PM »
TwoHand,

Can you comment at all on the BJ tourney?  We made a reservation to bowl on the fresh for that tourney to get some minor event practice in.

We also will be getting a practice session at home on the Team pattern as my center got a sample of the ICE conditioner, although we have AMF HPL lanes (which generally "hook" a bit more.

My plan (as of today) is a Disturbed at 2000. a Heat Hybrid at 4000, a Crossroad at box, and a Lights Out at box.

What I saw at the BJ was about what I saw on our minors events.  On the fresh, if you miss even a couple boards left of where you are looking, it makes the difference of hitting the pocket or going run away brooklyn unless you throw it 20mph.  I think the Disturbed at that finish will be a good place to start and play right up around 7-8 board.  Guys with alot of hand could get the ball back from 5-6 but outside 5 was a no go.  The middle of the lane hooks ALOT.  You definitely dont want anything shiny as you wont be able to control the breakpoint.  Once you get into game 2, the area around 6-7-8 should be broken in enough to move into 9-10 with something around 3000-4000 abralon.  Your Heat Hybrid could work well for the last game and a half.  This will also depend on who is also on your pair.  The highest scores I saw, were after the track broke in some and guys with some rev rate could move into 10-11-12 and bank off that area around 7-8. 

Make absolutely sure which side of the stadium you are bowling on whether it is team event and S/D as sides play a little different.  Most of the high scores have been lanes 1-40.  Once you start getting into the high 40s and above, nobody that i saw really did much.  If you are in fact on the high end, unless you have a slower ball speed, I would even recommend a ball at 1000 because anything higher (2000-4000), the ball struggles to read the pattern and even with a little surface can appear skiddish.  The key is to get the ball to lose "some" energy before it gets to that backend of the lane.  Otherwise, you will be in for a long trip.
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Jorge300

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Re: Just Returned from Reno
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2013, 02:08:03 PM »
Let me add to this. When I was there I saw a lot of Disturbeds being thrown. Shannon O'Keefe's teammate were throwing them, Billy Webb for one. They seemed to work really well. Also saw a lot of Wreckers being thrown, especially in D/S. The other popular ball seemed to be the IQ Tour Pearl. I was not close enough to see exact surfaces on most of these, but I didn't see anything that looked charcoal. Most looked to be between 2000 - 4000 abralon.
 
As far as ends of the house....while I agree with TwoHand that they play a little different...I disagree that you have to be in the lower end to score well. I saw two bowlers take a run at the Singles lead bowling in the upper end (in the mid 50's). One shot 300 the first game of Singles. I also saw Shannon O'Keefe's team take a run at Team All-Events lead bowling in the 50's. Bryan O'Keefe shot 290 the second game of Singles there. If you get 10 people (or 6 people in D/S) to break the lanes down together, and break them down properly, you will score well no matter where you are in the house.
Jorge300

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Re: Just Returned from Reno
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2013, 03:14:08 PM »
Thanks for the reply's TwoHand and Jorge

dmi2007

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Re: Just Returned from Reno
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2013, 03:34:16 PM »
I had a pretty good look with the Disturbed playing right around 5-7. As the lanes broke down, I just gave it a bit more air. Tried to take the lanes out of play. I didn't have as much luck as my team mates were struggling, so I just tried to keep myself out of trouble.
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thirtyclean

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Re: Just Returned from Reno
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2013, 12:31:59 PM »
I just returned from Reno last week and team was much easier than minors. The best shot for my ball speed on minors was lay down on 5th arrow, out to about 12-13 board, staying up the back with a Roto Defiant Soul. Was a much better look than my Lucid or Yetti. There were straighter players playing outside, but you could not pull it a board or rail or run away brooklyn. Also, Bring a spare ball, even my kill shots that work at home hooked in the corner at the 10. Also, shooting at 4 pin or 7 pin, better off straight at it with plastic. Do not trust free hook at those going cross lane. Some hang, some hook, with that Ice oil. In my opinions, hybrid coverstocks will do the best, a friend of my brought his Sync and he never used it. I only brought three down, but at home, My Bank roll or an Infinite Theory would have been ideal. There was nver need for charcoal down there !
Thirtyclean

Jorge300

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Re: Just Returned from Reno
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2013, 02:26:37 PM »
Thirtyclean,
     Let me start by saying this isn't a swipe against you personally in anyway.
 
But you might be the reason the people playing straighter had such issues. I have seen it personally, the last two years of team event. In order to make the lanes scoreable, you need everyone playing together. If people jump inside too early, or too far, it can cause issues for the others. Based on the team shot out there, there should be no need to be playing 5th arrow during any portion of team event. With you moving in there, and having your breakpoint at 12-13 you were basically making it unplayable for those trying to go straighter. You were drying out what little hold area there is, hence when they pulled it, it went brooklyn. You also were pushing oil outside into their lines, which takes away any breakdown they may have created, hence the rail when they missed right. Unless everyone is playing that 5th arrow shot, doing so will have negative consequences to the others on the pair. If you watch any of the teams competing for the top spot on the BowlTV archives, you will see the same thing....10 guys playing very similar lines, breaking down an area of the lanes (usually around 6-7-8 board area) and then moving in playing off that brokendown area. They don't use any heavily sanded because that creates too much of a wet/dry look. They use the balls they are going to start the event with and just move or ball down when needed.
 
With the new oil not breaking down as quick, I think it magnifies the issues that occur if teams don't follow this strategy. The oil has do something when the balls thrown over it, if it isn't disappearing into the balls, it will move somewhere. Hence if people start playing inside of others, it pushes oil out into their lines. That is what I have seen for the last two years. Last year I thought it was me, thought I wasn't executing. But this year, I saw the exact same thing and I know I threw the ball better. The minors pattern IS harder then team, it is flatter. Yet I was plus for my 6 games of minors, while I was way under for team. When I didn't have the people playing inside of me on my pair for minors, I was able to score on the more difficult pattern.
 
Again not a swipe at you, just something I have witnessed and a caution for anyone who may still be going.
Jorge300

thirtyclean

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Re: Just Returned from Reno
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2013, 03:36:13 PM »
Jorge300,
I should have specified that in team is was playing much straighter than minors. There was much more of a straighter line in team, and team was easier than minors. Not all of us have the pleasure of everyone playing the same line, we crossed with a classified team, who threw the ball all over the place, so your comments are unwarranted about lane plane play. Our anchor man was inside most of the tournament, and scored well. It was not a deep inside angle, more of a tight fallback shot. I did not consider your comments a swipe, when you go down there, you do what you have to do to score.
I did not push any oil around in team, I will say the back ends were quite strong on minors, and my best angle for forgiveness was laydown around 27 out to no more than  13, with my defiant soul. They anchor on my team in minors was in the same libe, with a Motive Raptor pin up.
Thanks for the observations !
Thirtyclean