Author Topic: USBC's Mordini on Binion's bracket deal (Read 8204 times)

riggs · « **on:** February 17, 2009, 09:27:59 AM »

Here it is guys. I am done for the day and won't be on again until Wednesday morning so I apologize in advance for not being able to answer any possible questions until then.

http://77square.com/sweat/blog/frame11/entry_439120

Jorge300 · « **Reply #61 on:** March 03, 2009, 09:42:18 AM »

quote:
You keep bringing up "Well what if this happened" or "What if that happened"...none of which DID happen.

Dan, what about the big "WHAT IF" that Russell started this with? He claims he lost $3K. That is the biggest what if out there. Just because his total was the second highest in the squad doesn't mean he would have cleaned up in brackets. I have seen many many times people shoot 250 or 260 one game and wind up with 580 or 590 series at Nationals. Why is that what if ok and mine aren't?

And traffic is an issue in Vegas, that is a given. Especially on the strip. I have relatives there and travel there quite a bit, i've seen it first-hand. If Russell's sponsor had been around the block enough as you claim, he should have taken this into account. Also, being the first weekend of the tournament, delays should also be expected. Just because they say 30 mins, why take it as a given when it hasn't been tried for real yet? Is it all the sponsor's fault, no. But it also wasn't all the USBC's fault as Russell has tried to say either. I don't see why that is so hard of a point to understand.
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Jorge300

DanH78 · « **Reply #62 on:** March 03, 2009, 12:41:45 PM »

quote:

Dan, what about the big "WHAT IF" that Russell started this with? He claims he lost $3K. That is the biggest what if out there. Just because his total was the second highest in the squad doesn't mean he would have cleaned up in brackets. I have seen many many times people shoot 250 or 260 one game and wind up with 580 or 590 series at Nationals. Why is that what if ok and mine aren't?

And traffic is an issue in Vegas, that is a given. Especially on the strip. I have relatives there and travel there quite a bit, i've seen it first-hand. If Russell's sponsor had been around the block enough as you claim, he should have taken this into account. Also, being the first weekend of the tournament, delays should also be expected. Just because they say 30 mins, why take it as a given when it hasn't been tried for real yet? Is it all the sponsor's fault, no. But it also wasn't all the USBC's fault as Russell has tried to say either. I don't see why that is so hard of a point to understand.
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Jorge300

[/quote]

Still waiting for an example of an insult.

Russell's score is not a "What if". He bowled the scores. Period. Is it a guarantee he would have won big? No, but the liklihood is pretty darn high. He was not given that chance because the USBC/Binion's screwed up. He pointed out that on the results board, guys shooting 180-190 were winning, not 250-260. So his three games of 200+ should have put him in with winner's circle for most brackets. Unless you are bowling on one of the heavy hitter squads, if you shoot 200 the first game, you're gonna clear a lot of brackets.

Enough with the traffic. IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!!! He was not late getting back the Cashman Center because of traffic. I'm sorry you run into traffic when you go to Vegas, but traffic is not an issue in this case. I've lived in Chicago my whole life, which I believe ranks only behind LA and NY as far as bad places to drive, it's not that hard to detour around traffic.

It should be the same system that has been used in Reno multiple times and in Baton Rouge. Why haven't the bugs been worked out?
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It IS next year!

Jorge300 · « **Reply #63 on:** March 03, 2009, 01:12:04 PM »

quote:

Russell's score is not a "What if". He bowled the scores. Period. Is it a guarantee he would have won big? No, but the liklihood is pretty darn high. He was not given that chance because the USBC/Binion's screwed up. He pointed out that on the results board, guys shooting 180-190 were winning, not 250-260. So his three games of 200+ should have put him in with winner's circle for most brackets. Unless you are bowling on one of the heavy hitter squads, if you shoot 200 the first game, you're gonna clear a lot of brackets.

Enough with the traffic. IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!!! He was not late getting back the Cashman Center because of traffic. I'm sorry you run into traffic when you go to Vegas, but traffic is not an issue in this case. I've lived in Chicago my whole life, which I believe ranks only behind LA and NY as far as bad places to drive, it's not that hard to detour around traffic.

It should be the same system that has been used in Reno multiple times and in Baton Rouge. Why haven't the bugs been worked out?
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It IS next year!

Really same system as in Reno and Baton Rouge....Binions pays the brackets in Reno and Baton Rouge....I didn't know that?!? And here I thought it was the Sands in Reno...my bad. I guess Dan knows all and we should all bow to you. You just KNOW traffic wouldn't have been an issue getting back forth to the hotel. Please tell me how you KNOW this? And since you are so knowledgeable, how about telling out President how to fix the economic crisis, and gives all our states lotto numbers for this weekend so we all can become rich?

And someone who is visiting Vegas for maybe only the 2nd or 3rd time should just know all the shortcuts around traffic, like you do in Chicago after living there your WHOLE LIFE, right?

Dan, please, these are just plain stupid arguements. You are just being difficult now, because you can't admit I am correct in my thinking. Nothing like being extra childish now Dan, grow up dude.
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Jorge300

triggerman · « **Reply #64 on:** March 03, 2009, 01:59:40 PM »

guess i will put myself in this too and add my two cents

I see a couple of things here.
1. Russels sponsor had a plan, that plan was to put x dollars in the team event, for his first squad. if that squad did well, based upon the 30 minute payout he would cash out and reinvest that money into the second team he was sponsoring (once again based upon USBC saying brackets would be paid within 30 minutes)
2. in the event they didnt cash well, he would go back to his room and get more cash for said second team.

3. facts show that team "a" did well, so the decision was made to go cash brackets to put into team "b" (once again based upon USBC stating brackets would be available in 30 mins)

4. go to binions and instead of 30 minutes it takes well over an hour and then USBC starts squad early/closes brackets early

here is my take on that, Russels sponsor did nothing wrong, USBC/Binions drug their feet on payout. The USBC closed brackets too soon, I personally have never seen team squads start early, singels and doulbles? yes 10 minutes maybe. I personaly think that if USBC is going to run said brackets, a posted closing time should be there, say 10 minutes prior to your scheduled squad time

Im not sold on russels squad doing anything wrong, USBC dropped the ball, no matter where the payout was done, posted start times should be adhered to
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www.bowlingballexchange.com

Triggerman

F.O.S Loud, F.O.S. Proud

Lane #1 Baby

Russell · « **Reply #65 on:** March 03, 2009, 07:17:33 PM »

Jorge show me where in the political forum I called people a failure at life.....and failure at manhood....and their bowling talent.

Like I said....you're a sad man....boy...whatever.
--------------------
http://www.myspace.com/rlrussell

Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

TWOHAND834 · « **Reply #66 on:** March 03, 2009, 07:53:18 PM »

FWIW...trigger hit the nail on the head. There was a plan and USBC, that day, said payouts were 30 minutes after the completion of the squad. Payment should have been no later than 5:00. It was 5:30, which was actually 45 minutes late, or 1 1/2 hours after squad completion. That 45 minutes was more than plenty of time to get money and back to Cashman. We figured that we should have been back at Cashman by a few minutes after 5:00, latest, which would have still gotten us there a half hour before the "early" release to the lanes for the Opening Ceremonies.

Jorge,

No disrespect intended here. But it is difficult to be critical/judgmental when you are not there to witness it firsthand. We were at the cashiers cage almost an hour before they finally said they received the results.
--------------------
Steven Vance
Pro Shop Operator
Striking Results Pro Shop
Red Carpet Lanes
Duluth (NE Atlanta), Georgia

If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!

Jorge300 · « **Reply #67 on:** March 04, 2009, 06:50:05 AM »

quote:
FWIW...trigger hit the nail on the head. There was a plan and USBC, that day, said payouts were 30 minutes after the completion of the squad. Payment should have been no later than 5:00. It was 5:30, which was actually 45 minutes late, or 1 1/2 hours after squad completion. That 45 minutes was more than plenty of time to get money and back to Cashman. We figured that we should have been back at Cashman by a few minutes after 5:00, latest, which would have still gotten us there a half hour before the "early" release to the lanes for the Opening Ceremonies.

Jorge,

No disrespect intended here. But it is difficult to be critical/judgmental when you are not there to witness it firsthand. We were at the cashiers cage almost an hour before they finally said they received the results.
--------------------
Steven Vance
Pro Shop Operator
Striking Results Pro Shop
Red Carpet Lanes
Duluth (NE Atlanta), Georgia

If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!

Steven,
I have no issues with you, and take no offense. You are correct I wasn't there. But I just don't see this as a total USBC failure. Maybe the issue was at Binions, maybe it was at the USBC, you and I will never know 100% for sure. All I ever meant to say was I think some of the blame needs to go on the sponsor as well. He took a chance that everything would run like clockwork in this scenario. And when it didn't, there was a problem. I didn't think that was so contentious a point, but I guess I was wrong. Isn't the first time, won't be the last.
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Jorge300

Edited on 3/4/2009 7:55 AM

Jorge300 · « **Reply #68 on:** March 04, 2009, 06:54:59 AM »

quote:
Jorge show me where in the political forum I called people a failure at life.....and failure at manhood....and their bowling talent.

Like I said....you're a sad man....boy...whatever.
--------------------
http://www.myspace.com/rlrussell

Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

ROFLMAO - Russell please, everyone knows you on here, you can't away playing the little angel now. You say things 100x worse then anything I said in here. Hell, just find anything you said about our President during the election for an example. Stop be so sacrimonious, it doesn't suit you.

I amn ot sad at all, actually very very happy in my life. I have a great family who loves me, a great job that at least for moment appears to be fairly safe, and I get to enjoy a sport I love like bowling. So as per your usual, another EPIC FAIL.
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Jorge300

DanH78 · « **Reply #69 on:** March 04, 2009, 09:39:35 AM »

quote:

Really same system as in Reno and Baton Rouge....Binions pays the brackets in Reno and Baton Rouge....I didn't know that?!? And here I thought it was the Sands in Reno...my bad. I guess Dan knows all and we should all bow to you. You just KNOW traffic wouldn't have been an issue getting back forth to the hotel. Please tell me how you KNOW this? And since you are so knowledgeable, how about telling out President how to fix the economic crisis, and gives all our states lotto numbers for this weekend so we all can become rich? And someone who is visiting Vegas for maybe only the 2nd or 3rd time should just know all the shortcuts around traffic, like you do in Chicago after living there your WHOLE LIFE, right?

Dan, please, these are just plain stupid arguements. You are just being difficult now, because you can't admit I am correct in my thinking. Nothing like being extra childish now Dan, grow up dude.
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Jorge300

Let's see, in Reno and Baton Rouge, USBC takes scores, puts results into bracket program, gets the winner and sends the results to the casino. Isn't that the SAME SYSTEM? Or do they use a different program for every tournament? Every time I've bowled, the bracket payout sheets look the same. Same books, same sheets, same system to get your money, whether it's at the casino or the convention center. I have no problem with the USBC taking money, 6 figures, for the bracket sponsor. But if they are gonna take the money, they should make sure it works.

I know traffic wasn't an issue because that's not why they were late getting back to Cashman. It wasn't. Stop using that argument. They didn't get caught in traffic. DID NOT HAPPEN. They were late because the USBC/Binion's screwed up. Why is that so hard to comprehend?

My point about bringing up Chicago is you seem to think traffic is unique to Vegas. It's not, and if you have a brain, it's not that hard to go around it. It's called looking at a map. I looked at a map of Vegas twice and I know how to get from anywhere on the strip to the Cashman Center without using Las Vegas BLVD. This isn't some back country road with no options, it's a major metropolitan area. And considering I don't know anyone that doesn't own a GPS, and all GPS have a "detour" option, if you can't figure it for yourself, it should be pretty easy to get around traffic.
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It IS next year!

Russell · « **Reply #70 on:** March 04, 2009, 12:12:38 PM »

quote:
quote:
Jorge show me where in the political forum I called people a failure at life.....and failure at manhood....and their bowling talent.

Like I said....you're a sad man....boy...whatever.
--------------------
http://www.myspace.com/rlrussell

Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

ROFLMAO - Russell please, everyone knows you on here, you can't away playing the little angel now. You say things 100x worse then anything I said in here. Hell, just find anything you said about our President during the election for an example. Stop be so sacrimonious, it doesn't suit you.

I amn ot sad at all, actually very very happy in my life. I have a great family who loves me, a great job that at least for moment appears to be fairly safe, and I get to enjoy a sport I love like bowling. So as per your usual, another EPIC FAIL.
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Jorge300

"let me throw some crap at the wall and see if it sticks"

Still waiting for a couple of things

- The ATM I can pull $4k out of
- The posts that were "100x worse" than calling people a failure as a man and a bowler

Have I told people their views are stupid....sure....but that is different than calling someone a failure at life.

I personally could give a rats @#$, I know how sad of a person you are no matter what you post on here. I just wanted to point it out in case you missed it.

Oh and by the way....TWOHAND was their...he has the same sponsor and was on the 2pm squad. He was standing next to our sponsor as the bracket fiasco happened.....so he DOES know.

That won't matter.....you're right...we're all stupid.
--------------------
http://www.myspace.com/rlrussell

Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

Gazoo · « **Reply #71 on:** March 04, 2009, 02:34:46 PM »

The moral of this ongoing saga, "if it can go wrong, it probably will" and should always be factored in by bowlers, sponsors, and everyone else. Brackets are a luxury not a right. They are secondary to the running of the tournament. I can however understand your discontent!
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"I don't want to be remembered, I want to be forgotten"

Jorge300 · « **Reply #72 on:** March 05, 2009, 06:40:28 AM »

quote:
Oh and by the way....TWOHAND was their...he has the same sponsor and was on the 2pm squad. He was standing next to our sponsor as the bracket fiasco happened.....so he DOES know.

That won't matter.....you're right...we're all stupid.
--------------------
http://www.myspace.com/rlrussell

Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

See this is how little you actually comprehend. I know Steven was there, never said he wasn't. But of course, the TRUTH doesn't mean anything to you. Just like I never sadi you could pull 4K out of an ATM, but again why should something like facts stop you now.

And no, everyone is not stupid, just you.
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Jorge300

Jorge300 · « **Reply #73 on:** March 05, 2009, 06:46:09 AM »

quote:
Let's see, in Reno and Baton Rouge, USBC takes scores, puts results into bracket program, gets the winner and sends the results to the casino. Isn't that the SAME SYSTEM? Or do they use a different program for every tournament? Every time I've bowled, the bracket payout sheets look the same. Same books, same sheets, same system to get your money, whether it's at the casino or the convention center. I have no problem with the USBC taking money, 6 figures, for the bracket sponsor. But if they are gonna take the money, they should make sure it works.

I know traffic wasn't an issue because that's not why they were late getting back to Cashman. It wasn't. Stop using that argument. They didn't get caught in traffic. DID NOT HAPPEN. They were late because the USBC/Binion's screwed up. Why is that so hard to comprehend?

My point about bringing up Chicago is you seem to think traffic is unique to Vegas. It's not, and if you have a brain, it's not that hard to go around it. It's called looking at a map. I looked at a map of Vegas twice and I know how to get from anywhere on the strip to the Cashman Center without using Las Vegas BLVD. This isn't some back country road with no options, it's a major metropolitan area. And considering I don't know anyone that doesn't own a GPS, and all GPS have a "detour" option, if you can't figure it for yourself, it should be pretty easy to get around traffic.
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It IS next year!

Dan, I will say this one more time, slowly so you understand....my traffic analogy was a counterarguement to your reasoning about going back to a hotel, not about their trip to and from Binions. You claimed you would have left the money in the hotel, and that is what this sponsor did, so you wouldn't have to carry so much cash. Do you understand now???

You still haven't answered my question as to the difference between 4K and 8K in making you a target for theft. Is it that huge a difference??? I think not, so that excuse doesn't fly either.

And you are instantly blaming the USBC for the issue with the bracket payouts. Were you there behind the scenes? Do you know 100% for a fact that it was the USBC's fault? I think not. So the issue could have been at Binions in receiving the data, could it not? Again, rather then use logic, you jump right to hating on me. If you act any more childish, we'd have to put you down for a nap with a bottle and your blankie.
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Jorge300

JoeBowler · « **Reply #74 on:** March 05, 2009, 07:10:00 AM »

You guys need to get a room and quit nit picking at each others scabs.

There has been errors by all parties.

Rightly or wrongly the USBC made promises they didnt keep on the payout. Which seems to be the norm for the bracket sponsors. After all they want you to hang around a gamble some money in there casino.

Rightly or wrongly the USBC put out the squad early and thus closed brackets early.

Rightly or wrongly some bowlers and sponsors didnt get to the squad room early enough with cash to get in all the brackets they wanted. I personally would not have cut it that close on making the squad but that is me.

Rightly or wrongly most people dont like walking around with 10K+ in cash on them. Hotel safes and room safes are good alternatives.

Rightly or wrongly most ATM's will not cough up multiple 1000's in cash.

Wrongly there has been lots of insults thrown back and forth.

Gazoo · « **Reply #75 on:** March 05, 2009, 07:40:32 AM »

"Rightly or wrongly most people dont like walking around with 10K+ in cash on them".

Except in Vegas!

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"I don't want to be remembered, I want to be forgotten"

Author Topic: USBC's Mordini on Binion's bracket deal (Read 8204 times)

riggs

USBC's Mordini on Binion's bracket deal

Jorge300

Re: USBC's Mordini on Binion's bracket deal

DanH78

Re: USBC's Mordini on Binion's bracket deal

Jorge300

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triggerman

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Russell

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TWOHAND834

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Jorge300

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Jorge300

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DanH78

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Russell

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Gazoo

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Jorge300

Re: USBC's Mordini on Binion's bracket deal

Jorge300

Re: USBC's Mordini on Binion's bracket deal

JoeBowler

Re: USBC's Mordini on Binion's bracket deal

Gazoo

Re: USBC's Mordini on Binion's bracket deal