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Author Topic: My 2 cents about Baton Rouge  (Read 18324 times)

strikeking

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My 2 cents about Baton Rouge
« on: May 21, 2012, 02:53:38 PM »
First of all, if you have spectators going, make sure they take sweaters to the lanes. If you think you are going to bowl well, think again. The shot is someting I have NEVER seen in all of my years of bowling. It is flat across the lanes with back-ends that hook really hard. Miss your mark 1 board right the ball stays right. Miss your mark one board left the ball misses left. You won't see any sloppy strikes or flying pins off the side boards. Spares are a guessing game of wether or not the ball will miss left or right.  The best scoring seems to be right down the middle where there is a slight bit of more oil. If you have a plastic ball, take it with you. This maybe the best ball for this condition.
We parked in the Belle parking garage and walked to the lanes through the Belle Atrium. It is a little farther but it is free.
Strikeking

 

mainzer

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Re: My 2 cents about Baton Rouge
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2012, 12:41:33 AM »
What would the point be of bowling team on one lane? Then it is nothing but open bowling. Call
it the Open Bowling Championship. Why can't it just be a competition to see who the best is?
why do the rules have to change? Man up and find five other guys or deal with it.
"No one runs...from the conquerer "

MainzerPower

Hoselrockets

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Re: My 2 cents about Baton Rouge
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2012, 06:13:20 AM »
What would the point be of bowling team on one lane? Then it is nothing but open bowling. Call
it the Open Bowling Championship. Why can't it just be a competition to see who the best is?
why do the rules have to change? Man up and find five other guys or deal with it.

Agree 100%, shoe it up and do the best you can do.

mrfrostee

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Re: My 2 cents about Baton Rouge
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2012, 08:01:18 AM »
 I would find it interesting to see the scores of the top tier teams, if there companion team was in the classified division where they would not be able to help break down the lanes. As it stands today there is no rule with basically a "10 man team" breaking down a pair of lanes and I am in the mindset you do what you need to to win.

storm making it rain

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Re: My 2 cents about Baton Rouge
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2012, 08:35:55 AM »
Let's not forget that for the vast majority of people bowling this tournament it's not about winning an eagle.  I would bet that 90% of all of the entries realistically have no shot at winning.  Pairing the upper tier teams with "classified" teams in my opinion would deter said bowlers.  More often than not these lower tiered teams go to bowl with their friends, family, etc. 

As far as breaking down the lanes, those who do it well will score better plain and simple.  Why should we penalize them for working as a team and having the ability to get 10 people together to work together.


mrfrostee

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Re: My 2 cents about Baton Rouge
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2012, 09:05:06 AM »
Storm, for some "classified" teams I agree that it would serve to stop them from showing up to bowl.  But for others it might actually increase their excitment for nationals. I am one of the 90% who have no shot at winning an eagle and I have no problem in stating that. But I would be thrilled at bowling on a pair with Riggs, CDB, Shannon etc... My only concern would be in killing their chance at winning an eagle.

storm making it rain

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Re: My 2 cents about Baton Rouge
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2012, 09:16:16 AM »
While I'd agree it would be fun to bowl with some of the elite teams, sort of like a pro-am so to speak, I would think some of said teams wouldn't be 100% interested.

One interesting idea (and this would be a LONG shot) is to have the top (x) amount of teams to all bowl the team event on a certain day and bring some TV action into it.  Again some of these teams have been going possibly on the same dates for years, but I think it would make for great coverage for our sport.

Something outside the "traditional box" of the tournament could create alot of excitement for the game. 

mrfrostee

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Re: My 2 cents about Baton Rouge
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2012, 09:18:10 AM »
I would watch that over some of the PBA events that are shown on tv

Bill Thomas

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Re: My 2 cents about Baton Rouge
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2012, 05:17:37 PM »
FYI much of the world, at least Europe, bowl team events on one lane and have been doing so for many years.  So its not really accurate to say you can't do it and its never been done.  Why wouldn't award scores count if the rules were changed to one lane bowling.

You can't bowl team on one lane, never been like that and should,never be like that. If you do that, then league should,be like that. Plus, if you are only bowling on one lane, award scores wouldn't count, or should have an asterisk next to it stating bowled on one lane. Then you could argue bowling doubles on one lane also. Really, how could u even consider bowling just on one lane.

Tex

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Re: My 2 cents about Baton Rouge
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2012, 10:42:38 PM »
Have to go back to the affect of fresh every squad. Which is something I have done in the tournaments I manage for years. At this one though, it is going to mandate the team philosphy even more. You only get 2 shots on each lane for doubles so better make them count to start working on the burn area. One thing that it might help though is needing a variety of equipment to handle the big difference between fresh and the left overs in the minor events after team. Which being able to drive to Baton Rouge afforded me more so this year than when we fly. I could see 3 or 4 balls being plenty to handle the transitions and depending on volume of conditioner being able to leave the pearls at home. It was almost that way the last trip to Reno, I am thinking spare and 3 balls with a variety of surface and rolls. It will be interesting to see the pattern choice for next year with the USBC not having to worry about the pattern holding up for as many games.

I have been taking bets (in jest) that Matt sets another all events record next year. His talent, in Reno, not changing lanes in the minors...Boom.  Add 200 sticks to his all events this year from the bad cross in singles.

backupball

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Re: My 2 cents about Baton Rouge
« Reply #25 on: June 30, 2012, 11:18:56 AM »
I see them going to a lower volume pattern next year, since each squad will be on the fresh. Time will tell.

riggs

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Re: My 2 cents about Baton Rouge
« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2012, 08:07:02 AM »
I think one team per lane is a provocative and interesting idea that might be more fair to all involved than companion teams.

Andyman3333

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Re: My 2 cents about Baton Rouge
« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2012, 11:45:54 AM »
By going to fresh oil for singles and doubles and by also keeping bowlers on the same pair throughout, the USBC is recognizing the fact that oil manipulation (I.E. who bowls before you most importantly) dictates that all bowlers are not playing on a level playing field.  You just have to watch a few pairs of lanes during a burn squad to realize it's a significant difference from pair to pair and no way to control it except to re-oil and make sure you stay on your own lanes and don't have to follow anyone.  Either that, or develop an oiless lane. 

USBC, to their credit, is trying to take out some of the "Luck of the Draw" that is playing a significant part in determining winners and losers each year in singles and doubles.  In my 3 years, I'm averaging 217 in doubles and 248 in singles.  That's significant.   

The only way I see that fairness being executed on the team level is to take away the 10-player advantage, because a team in this tournament is only "Recognized" as 5-players.  And the only way I see it being done fairly is by making teams bowl and manage 1 lane.  This tournament isn't like traditional league bowling in that you aren't directly competing for points against the team on the same pair.  I like the one lane concept and would be supportive of it.

avabob

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Re: My 2 cents about Baton Rouge
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2012, 10:39:32 PM »
All of this begs the real question. Why have we let ball surfaces get so out of control that the pattern can be manipulated as easily as is now the case.  I know this is not an issue for the 90% of USBC tournament participants who don't compete at an elite level, but the ball surfaces have made any long format tournaments  impossible without re oiling more frequently than is desirable.  Even then who you follow in a cross becomes as important as how well you execute. 

This is not coming from some malcontent old codger who thinks scores are too high and that technology has destroyed the integrity of the game.  I have no problem with high scoring.  I just believe it should be a function how the bowler bowls, not how his companions and/or people crossing before him played.

I skipped nationals this year for the first time in 17 years, and it wasn't because of the issues I cited above, but those issues certainly made the decision easier for me.     

Tex

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Re: My 2 cents about Baton Rouge
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2012, 12:34:53 PM »
Had to do a follow up on this one. I had a pretty good bowler ask me last weekend why USBC thinks they have to make the pattern so tough at Nationals. It takes all the fun out of going there to bowl and he is thinking about not going anymore. This is a 220 plus bowler at different centers and averaged high for years. Happened to be left handed, so faces the conditions alone unless he happens to catch a companion team that has someone else on his side.

Is this what we have came to? The house conditions are so easy we think the Nationals should be a wall shot...Makes me want to cry, scream, something. I go to the Nationals because it is tough. I have more pride in shooting 1800 there than 2100 at a normal tournament. Shot my first 700 this year after too many years and I want that feeling a little more often because I earned this one.

As far as the luck of the draw. It is amazing how right team now that can affect your scoring. This year we could not have been luckier than what bowled in front of us on our singles lanes and a pretty good group in front of us before the doubles. They did it right and set us up for success. The same thing can happen with luck of the draw in team, we now take two teams and never have been lucky at Nationals. However, this past spring at the Southern we could not have been matched up with a better team and just shows how it could happen anywhere. Heck I would invite the 5 guys that we paired up with at Southern to go as our companion at Nationals, all 5 started right and stayed right all day while we slowly drifted left and continued to pound the pocket. As far as next year I can't wait until next February when they announce the pattern and we start going over to the ITRC to develop a game plan. I am sure now we can take our 6 for doubles/singles and develop a separate plan for that set as well as what we work out for team.

Dogtown

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Re: My 2 cents about Baton Rouge
« Reply #30 on: July 17, 2012, 04:33:41 PM »
Something to keep in mind is that 60,000 - 90,000 bowlers show up for this tournament.  The shot has to be tough otherwise everyone would complain about how high the scores are.  This is not your local city tournament with a THS.  It is about quality shot making and a solid spare game. 

Anyone who criticizes two teams playing together to open the shot is missing the point.  Regardless of what the format is or how it changes, good bowlers will ALWAYS have strategies to deal with the conditions no matter what they are.  Great bowlers will execute those strategies. 

I do understand them oiling before S/D.  Now everybody plays the same shot vs. luck of the draw with the left overs of the teams previous to you.

My one criticism for a team staying on one lane the whole event is that you lock the right-handed bowlers on the right lane on how far they can move left before stepping around the ball return (or opposite for lefties).  Where the left lane would be open.  That's usually not an issue for most, but still.

I love the tournament.  I've never even shot 600 there playing off a 220 average.  But that's on me.  I know where my flaws are and I'm working on them to get better.