Author Topic: My Experience (Read 8909 times)

Strapper_Squared · « **on:** March 17, 2012, 02:32:00 AM »

Quick report. Bowled the team event tonight. I found the conditions to be nearly impossible. Decided to start outside. Had absolutely zero area. Miss a board outside and missed the head pin right... Missed two plus boards and it was ditch. Going the other way, zero hold. Anything slightly projected off left absolutely took off.
After starting terrible, moved inside and found nothing there.
Several 230+ average bowlers on the pair, high set was 570, and drastically dropped off from there (into the 400's)..

I don't even know what to say right now. Frustrating and disappointing... Not really looking forward to s/d.

S^2

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Edited by Strapper_Squared on 3/17/2012 at 0:33 AM

Jorge300 · « **Reply #46 on:** March 19, 2012, 06:52:49 PM »

The actual joke is the league shots in 99% of the country. Why should this tournament have to "dumb down" it's shot to cater to the league bowler who is used to the Great Wall of China? The problem isn't the tournament, the problem is the league bowlers who actually believe they are as good as their house league averages. This tournament is exactly what they need so they realize that they aren't that good. The ones that will decide not to bowl anymore would be the same cry-babies that would quit their league if they actually decided to put out a tougher shot. They don't want to learn to bowl, they just want to score. They want to stand left, throw right and get strikes as long as the ball hits within a 10 board area. The USBC Open isn't about that. It is about being the best of the best. And only the teams that work together, practice, and prepare are going to do well. If one doesn't do those things, then they shouldn't expect to score well at this type of event.

My father bowled this tournament for over 25 years, and I am working on my 12th year.....and I have never heard this called a league bowlers championship. It has always, ALWAYS, been a more difficult shot than a normal league shot. The difference was in the past the actual league shots were pretty tough and the gap to jump wasn't as high as it is today. The USBC Open hasn't changed it's shot, it's the league shots that have gotten stupid easy. I will admit the shot this year is tougher then some years past, and that will happen, Next year I am sure it will be a little easier, but still it will reward consistent shot-making, and won't reward spraying the ball over 10 boards like a regular league shot.

Xx 12 X 300 xX wrote on 3/19/2012 2:16 PM:I bowl tournaments and I think the tournament is a joke. That is just my opinion. I think it is unfair to the membership of the USBC. Just my opinion.

It's a membership tournament that is made of of a membership that is in the 170 average range. Take a membership tournament and spin it all you want.

The "professional" amateur tournament should be the Masters. If you want to show you stuff, it should be in the Masters and not the Open championship.

The Open Championship is widely regarded as the league bowlers championship, simply because its made up of league bowlers, exactly what the USBC is, a league bowler organization. It is not a professional bowling organization.

Making the lanes stupid hard, and then embarrassing the membership is not the answer to the sports problems.

Edited by Xx 12 X 300 xX on 3/19/2012 at 2:23 PM

Jorge300

Andyman3333 · « **Reply #47 on:** March 19, 2012, 07:25:25 PM »

They have a classified division for bowlers with less than a 180 average. League Bowlers have a championships too. Lots of them in various leagues and bowling centers across the country.

You can count me as one person who would NOT bowl if the pattern was a cakewalk. Because that right there degrades the years of practice I've put in to be better than average. The years I've put in bowling like crap on PBA Experience Patterns to improve my shot making ability and my understanding of lane patterns, and ball layouts.

And I think my efforts for the most part have shown in this National Championship event with back to back 2003 all events scores and top 100 finishes in singles in my 1st two years bowling in it. Yeah, I JUST FIGJAMMED A LITTLE BIT. It felt good too. LOL.

The problem with society today is people want stuff handed to them. They don't want to earn it. It isn't just a problem in bowling.

Xx 12 X 300 xX wrote on 3/19/2012 2:16 PM:I bowl tournaments and I think the tournament is a joke. That is just my opinion. I think it is unfair to the membership of the USBC. Just my opinion.

It's a membership tournament that is made of of a membership that is in the 170 average range. Take a membership tournament and spin it all you want.

The "professional" amateur tournament should be the Masters. If you want to show you stuff, it should be in the Masters and not the Open championship.

The Open Championship is widely regarded as the league bowlers championship, simply because its made up of league bowlers, exactly what the USBC is, a league bowler organization. It is not a professional bowling organization.

Making the lanes stupid hard, and then embarrassing the membership is not the answer to the sports problems.

Edited by Xx 12 X 300 xX on 3/19/2012 at 2:23 PM

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kidlost2000 · « **Reply #48 on:** March 19, 2012, 07:55:52 PM »

I don't really have a complaint on the tournament. I average over 220+ and averaged 173 for the tournament. I had a chance to bowl two games on the pattern a day before bowling the tournament. I wasn't able to tell much other then my strike line was going to be tight.

When I got to the tournament strikes were not my issue by any means. The spares were. I kept hitting 10 or just right of 10 trying to play off the outside or my strike line for spares and the ball wouldn't move and I was too scared of the middle of the lanes and the backends being too jumpy. It wasn't till the end of doubles that I was able to figure out that by staying in the middle of the lane and using 15-20 for any spares in the middle of the lane or left that I started to improve my scores/spares.

My goal was to average 190+ for the tournament and the opportunity was missed because of easy spares in the middle of the lane. This was my first trip to nationals and my next one will be better because of willingness to change my spare approach prior to bowling the event. the true advantage is bowlers who can bowl on the shot prior to the event. The more you bowl on anything, the better your chances. When I finished single I was ready to start the tournament over because of what I was able to learn my last four games.

As far as low average bowlers go they have their own division and I saw many in that division stay close to their averages because of spare shooting. That is the theme for the tournament. SPARES

"1 of 1."

Edited by kidlost2000 on 3/19/2012 at 5:56 PM

TDC57 · « **Reply #49 on:** March 19, 2012, 09:59:12 PM »

Andy,

I agree with most of what you said. The shot should be challenging at the USBC but it doesn't have to be so tough that the bowling is almost ridiculous. I applaud you for working hard on tough conditions to become a better bowler. I've bowled nationals about 6 times. Bowled fairly well in about half of those. The first time at Reno was awful. The only thing I take issue with is that you infer bowling (in general) is too easy all over. I've been bowling in leagues for 40 years. I've bowled through the rubber, plastic, urethane and now reactive resin eras. I don't know how old you are and what you base your feelings on, but there has never been an era where getting to the pocket was that tough! It's not the lane conditions now that are so easy, they've never been that tough unless someone deliberately put out a very tough shot. It's the balls that have created the havoc. You can buy something that can overpower just about any type of shot.

The condition the USBC lays down isn't about bringing the "league" bowler back to earth, it's about taking the balls somewhat out of the equation and forcing shot making to be the most important thing. Let's face it today when bowlers go to Nationals, they individually, have very little chance to win strictly on their own ability. It now comes down to making sure you have others bowling with you to help break down the lanes so you can open up a certain shot to help you score. When you see a bunch of "regular Joe" league bowlers bowl there, they invariably struggle for the most part. They aren't doing that! The winners of each event are almost 100% of the time, guys who team up to break the lanes down. I'm not sure that's what the founders of the ABC were thinking of when the tournament was started. They never for once thought it was going to have to be a group of guys helping someone win singles or a buddy team helping another break the lanes down so the other could have a chance at winning an eagle and splitting the money with them. Every thing isn't about having something given to you unless you also include bowlers wanting fresh conditions for each shift so their group has a better chance at teaming up to break down the lanes.

One other thing to all the guys who posted and come off as bowling snobs. The majority of the bowlers who sanction with the USBC are just league bowlers and keep shooting your mouths off from your high horses and a game that is losing membership every year will eventually be left to you and with that will wither and die!!

Edited by TDC57 on 3/19/2012 at 8:06 PM

TDC57 · « **Reply #50 on:** March 19, 2012, 10:44:20 PM »

TWOHAND834,

I just read your post from 3/19 at 8:39, It was an excellent written and well thought out piece that nailed the subject exactly.

r534me · « **Reply #51 on:** March 19, 2012, 11:18:48 PM »

I would add that it's important to leave makable spares and preferably single pin leaves. Last year, I shot 599 in doubles and I only had one double and one turkey in three games and the turkey came in the 10th frame! I didn't miss a makable spare. Splits, that's another story.

kidlost2000 wrote on 3/19/2012 5:55 PM:
I don't really have a complaint on the tournament. I average over 220+ and averaged 173 for the tournament. I had a chance to bowl two games on the pattern a day before bowling the tournament. I wasn't able to tell much other then my strike line was going to be tight.

When I got to the tournament strikes were not my issue by any means. The spares were. I kept hitting 10 or just right of 10 trying to play off the outside or my strike line for spares and the ball wouldn't move and I was too scared of the middle of the lanes and the backends being too jumpy. It wasn't till the end of doubles that I was able to figure out that by staying in the middle of the lane and using 15-20 for any spares in the middle of the lane or left that I started to improve my scores/spares.

My goal was to average 190+ for the tournament and the opportunity was missed because of easy spares in the middle of the lane. This was my first trip to nationals and my next one will be better because of willingness to change my spare approach prior to bowling the event. the true advantage is bowlers who can bowl on the shot prior to the event. The more you bowl on anything, the better your chances. When I finished single I was ready to start the tournament over because of what I was able to learn my last four games.

As far as low average bowlers go they have their own division and I saw many in that division stay close to their averages because of spare shooting. That is the theme for the tournament. SPARES

"1 of 1."

Edited by kidlost2000 on 3/19/2012 at 5:56 PM

BigBaller · « **Reply #52 on:** March 20, 2012, 12:12:05 AM »

I like nationals the way it is. I am going to like the fresh for every squad.

I go to nationals looking to average 190 or better every year. I was on my way untill the wheels cam off in singles.... I Dont get to bowl on the tough conditions, ever. I just don't have the time. I bowl on the finest house china 2 nights a week. And those are the only 2 nights a week i have to myself.

I practice my spares.

I once had a coach in juniors that said "son, strikes will get you ass, spares will get you cash". I already have the first so i focus on the cash aspect...

Obviously you were not listening to your ball...

BigBaller · « **Reply #53 on:** March 20, 2012, 12:24:08 AM »

I have to chime in again... Sorry this topic got so off the original post.

I think the problem most people have with this tournament is that the only thing they see is the house china. Like i said in my last post, i have 2 nights a week to bowl. I bowl a late mens league wednesday night. I get home at midnight. The up to work at 5 the nxt morning. Then i get to bowl thursday night right after work. The only thing i ever get to see is a house shot.

I have kids and work. And I focus on my family. It seems like every other summer i am lucky enough to have 1 night a week where they have a PBA expierence league on a free night, so i get to bowl on a tougher shot there but i don't get to do that consistantly.

But i go to nationals with realistic expectations.

Obviously you were not listening to your ball...

r534me · « **Reply #54 on:** March 20, 2012, 03:59:51 AM »

I had hought. It is all about shot making. However, unless one is able to practice sport shots and practice with others a person might not see the transition that occur during the team event. I do think it will help one improve his shot making.

I like this thread. It has a lot of great opinions.

WOWZERS · « **Reply #55 on:** March 20, 2012, 08:17:12 AM »

Ok, correct me if I am wrong.

I read where the average league bowler in the United States has an average of 170 or 175. On soft conditions. So, if you lump the entire membership together, our composite average would be 170 or somewhere very close. This coming from a 220 bowler on soft and 205 on Sport, the average bowler in our membership has NO chance at this tournament. Heck, I have no chance when I go down in a few weeks. I might make some money, but not an Eagle.

I have bowled scratch leagues for years, but they are dieing out. Why? Because much of the attitude we have seen in this thread, the I am better than you because I can afford to practice, afford to bowl 10 times per week attitude has become stinky and bowling alleys do not want to put up with the high maintenance bowler that scratch bowlers have become.

I believe that the tourney should have a condition that is equal and fair for everyone. Something tougher than your normal house soft wall, but no way should it be anywhere close to the pattern we see this year, and maybe for the last few years. The 170 person has no shot. Does everyone realize that if the average bowler averaging 170 has no shot, by definition, the pattern is skewed toward less of the membership because only the folks that average much higher than the membership average have any chance at the big win.

Don't give me the stuff about the lower division. Yep, its there, but its almost a slap in the face. Maybe instead of putting out a Sport condition, one year we put out a soft condition for the lower average bowlers and if the high average guys, like me, still want to play, we get a side event where we can play amongst ourself, much like the lower average bowlers do today.

MrPerfect · « **Reply #56 on:** March 20, 2012, 10:48:59 AM »

WOWZERS wrote on 3/20/2012 6:17 AM:
Ok, correct me if I am wrong.

I read where the average league bowler in the United States has an average of 170 or 175. On soft conditions. So, if you lump the entire membership together, our composite average would be 170 or somewhere very close. This coming from a 220 bowler on soft and 205 on Sport, the average bowler in our membership has NO chance at this tournament. Heck, I have no chance when I go down in a few weeks. I might make some money, but not an Eagle.

I have bowled scratch leagues for years, but they are dieing out. Why? Because much of the attitude we have seen in this thread, the I am better than you because I can afford to practice, afford to bowl 10 times per week attitude has become stinky and bowling alleys do not want to put up with the high maintenance bowler that scratch bowlers have become.

I believe that the tourney should have a condition that is equal and fair for everyone. Something tougher than your normal house soft wall, but no way should it be anywhere close to the pattern we see this year, and maybe for the last few years. The 170 person has no shot. Does everyone realize that if the average bowler averaging 170 has no shot, by definition, the pattern is skewed toward less of the membership because only the folks that average much higher than the membership average have any chance at the big win.

Don't give me the stuff about the lower division. Yep, its there, but its almost a slap in the face. Maybe instead of putting out a Sport condition, one year we put out a soft condition for the lower average bowlers and if the high average guys, like me, still want to play, we get a side event where we can play amongst ourself, much like the lower average bowlers do today.

While I don't really see a problem with the current format I'm always down for a tournament having more games. I'd love it if there was a side event for high average bowlers that was a 10 gamer on a sport shot while at Nationals. It would give me something to look forward to as tournament bowling in Florida has slowly gone the way of the dodo outside of some really well run tournaments by some South Florida Centers and Erik Ramos and his Southern Shootout.

r534me · « **Reply #57 on:** March 20, 2012, 11:10:45 AM »

Yet, thousands of teams bowl it every year. Maybe, it's not just an eagle they are after? This could be a new thread, "Why do you bowl the nationals when you have so little chance of winning it?"

WOWZERS wrote on 3/20/2012 6:17 AM:Ok, correct me if I am wrong.

I read where the average league bowler in the United States has an average of 170 or 175. On soft conditions. So, if you lump the entire membership together, our composite average would be 170 or somewhere very close. This coming from a 220 bowler on soft and 205 on Sport, the average bowler in our membership has NO chance at this tournament. Heck, I have no chance when I go down in a few weeks. I might make some money, but not an Eagle.

I have bowled scratch leagues for years, but they are dieing out. Why? Because much of the attitude we have seen in this thread, the I am better than you because I can afford to practice, afford to bowl 10 times per week attitude has become stinky and bowling alleys do not want to put up with the high maintenance bowler that scratch bowlers have become.

I believe that the tourney should have a condition that is equal and fair for everyone. Something tougher than your normal house soft wall, but no way should it be anywhere close to the pattern we see this year, and maybe for the last few years. The 170 person has no shot. Does everyone realize that if the average bowler averaging 170 has no shot, by definition, the pattern is skewed toward less of the membership because only the folks that average much higher than the membership average have any chance at the big win.

Don't give me the stuff about the lower division. Yep, its there, but its almost a slap in the face. Maybe instead of putting out a Sport condition, one year we put out a soft condition for the lower average bowlers and if the high average guys, like me, still want to play, we get a side event where we can play amongst ourself, much like the lower average bowlers do today.

WOWZERS · « **Reply #58 on:** March 20, 2012, 11:39:31 AM »

Yep, thousands of teams bowl it every year, but how long have we been talking about the decrease in participation? Is it because of Reno every year almost? How about tough shots? How about the bad economy? Less and less teams are bowling every year, so yes, while many folks do bowl it every year, they are becoming less and less plentiful.

I go because I treat it as a vacation with some bowling and good times with friends. However, when one friend can't go because his wife lost her job or another person is sick of the tourney because of the Reno experience that he will not go anywhere else, we lose the extra padding if we don't do something to draw competitors back. Alienating a group of bowlers from the get go is not the way to get participation back. Good bowlers (not great/wonderful/top of the line) like me are NOT the rule, we are the exception.

r534me · « **Reply #59 on:** March 20, 2012, 11:52:38 AM »

Then the next thread could be why one does not go to the USBC open championships anymore?

There should be some churn in the nationals. Some teams will drop out and new ones will sign up to replace them. Hopefully, the numbers are on the plus side.

Generally speaking, leagues have very little churn in them and that's a major problem that probably affects the national tournament participation more than the lane conditions and venue. I am sure you have seen it. A team or two drop out of the league and the center is scrambling to find replacement ones.

Jorge300 · « **Reply #60 on:** March 20, 2012, 12:02:09 PM »

Wowzers,

You may be correct in that fact. But I think you are forgetting something. I mentioned this in my previous post. You say the shot has been tough at the Open for the last few years. That is not true. The shot has ALWAYS been tough at the USBC Open/ABC Championships. My father, when he was alive, went to this tournament for almost 25 years. This man bowled in fire company lanes around PA, where the shots were always difficult. And he usually failed to make his average when he went. The shot at the Open hasn't gotten harder. It may now be a true sport shot, but it was always close if not one, even before anyone knew what that was. Yes, the shot this year is on the more difficult end of the spectrum, no one is denying that. But that happens every once in a while, just like you get easier ones like in Billings.

My question is why in just the last few years has this been such an issue? When my father went, you went knowing you weren't going to score as well as you did at home. you did your best and took what you could get. The problem, from what I can tell, is back then people understood that what you bowled in your leagues, wasn't a true indication of your skill level. Today, people don't think that way. They average 200-210 and think they are great bowlers, they think they can compete with the pros they see on TV shooting 180's and 190's. They don't realize the dedication and sacrifice it takes to truly be good bowler. And when this gets pointed out, what happens, you get called elitist. Bowling today is about throwing lots of strikes, getting honor scores and averaging 15-20 pins higher then the actual talent of the bowler. Find any league and try to put in a more difficult shot in, and watch what happens....you get more whining and crying then in your local daycare. No one wants to take the time and effort to actually be good at this sport, they want the balls and the lanes to do it for them. Name another sport where people get rewarded for not having skill in that sport???

WOWZERS wrote on 3/20/2012 6:17 AM:
Ok, correct me if I am wrong.

I read where the average league bowler in the United States has an average of 170 or 175. On soft conditions. So, if you lump the entire membership together, our composite average would be 170 or somewhere very close. This coming from a 220 bowler on soft and 205 on Sport, the average bowler in our membership has NO chance at this tournament. Heck, I have no chance when I go down in a few weeks. I might make some money, but not an Eagle.

I have bowled scratch leagues for years, but they are dieing out. Why? Because much of the attitude we have seen in this thread, the I am better than you because I can afford to practice, afford to bowl 10 times per week attitude has become stinky and bowling alleys do not want to put up with the high maintenance bowler that scratch bowlers have become.

I believe that the tourney should have a condition that is equal and fair for everyone. Something tougher than your normal house soft wall, but no way should it be anywhere close to the pattern we see this year, and maybe for the last few years. The 170 person has no shot. Does everyone realize that if the average bowler averaging 170 has no shot, by definition, the pattern is skewed toward less of the membership because only the folks that average much higher than the membership average have any chance at the big win.

Don't give me the stuff about the lower division. Yep, its there, but its almost a slap in the face. Maybe instead of putting out a Sport condition, one year we put out a soft condition for the lower average bowlers and if the high average guys, like me, still want to play, we get a side event where we can play amongst ourself, much like the lower average bowlers do today.

Jorge300

Edited by Jorge300 on 3/20/2012 at 10:13 AM