Author Topic: My Experience (Read 8908 times)

Strapper_Squared · « **on:** March 17, 2012, 02:32:00 AM »

Quick report. Bowled the team event tonight. I found the conditions to be nearly impossible. Decided to start outside. Had absolutely zero area. Miss a board outside and missed the head pin right... Missed two plus boards and it was ditch. Going the other way, zero hold. Anything slightly projected off left absolutely took off.
After starting terrible, moved inside and found nothing there.
Several 230+ average bowlers on the pair, high set was 570, and drastically dropped off from there (into the 400's)..

I don't even know what to say right now. Frustrating and disappointing... Not really looking forward to s/d.

S^2

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Edited by Strapper_Squared on 3/17/2012 at 0:33 AM

WOWZERS · « **Reply #61 on:** March 20, 2012, 12:19:30 PM »

Jorge,

Tha pattern has always been tough, but I think when you add in the fact of a bad economy, Reno every year for the next century, and other issues, the bowlers who have no shot of winning will pinpoint what have troubled them all along, but because they were having FUN the shot did not matter. Take away the fun and now the shot and every piece of the remaining puzzle is more important than ever before.

Not saying the shot shouldn't be tough. Not saying the shot shouldn't reward the better players. I am one of them. However, we have a dwindling customer base and have to do something to stem the tide. What the USBC has turned into is a resource tournament. How much time can I practice on the shot before going, in addition to my normal leagues, works, etc. How many bowling balls can I take? How many nights a week can I drop $100 or more in brackets. Take your average family man or woman. They do not have those type of resources. They have expenses that prevents them from taking a dozen bowling balls. They have committments that prevent them from practicing for weeks on the shot before going. They have bills that prevent them from practicing or bowling league more than once or twice a week. Those are the types of bowlers we are losing.We need their participation. Those bowlers feel beaten before they even step on the lane. 5 years ago, they did not feel that way. They had a better outlook on the tourney because they went to different cities, they felt that somehow, even though last year they shot 132 or whatever, this year could be different. That has changed. The perception has changed that this is now an ELITE bowlers tournament, a group of bowlers with vast reserves of resources as mentioned above, not a tournament that caters to the majority of the membership.

Do we want the USBC to change? I would like to think my skill gives me a better chance to win. However, just like the PBA, there will not be a USBC in X years if changes do not occur, even changes that makes the tournament easier for more bowlers, which would anger some of the better bowlers. But once again, if bowlers averaging 200+ make up 30% of the membership and bowlers that average below 170 make up 50% of the membership, wouldn't you rather have a tourney that goes after more bowlers for larger prizes, or would you rather have a tough tournament that only appeals to a small amount of the membership and run the tournament into the ground?

I would rather have a tourney to go to than to say to my kids, your dad bowled in the USBC tourney before it closed down. Even if it means I shoot 750 and don't cash or lose money in brackets.

Jorge300 · « **Reply #62 on:** March 20, 2012, 12:51:21 PM »

Wowzers,

I understand people's frustration with Reno so often. I too liked travelling around to different cities. But, the same bad economy that isn't allowing the bowlers to do things they want is effecting the USBC too. The tournament is in Reno so much because Reno can give the tournament a deal other cities can't. It can give them a deal that means the tournament will stay profitable, even as the number of entries decrease. We could easily go to another city, even on the East Coast and see a decline in entries, and then the USBC Open might lose money. That is a bigger risk to the tournament, and more of a factor of it closing down, then going to Reno every year. What I don't understand is the same people who complain that they don't have the resources to practice on the shot, buy a new ball or two for the shot, because of the bad economy are the people complaining the loudest about going to Reno so often. It's like it's ok for the bad economy to effect them, but not ok that it effects the USBC Open. I tend to be a realist when it comes to this. I understand why it's Reno so often. I may not like it, but I am not going to get all up in arms about it, because it is an understandable solution to the world economy at this time and the forseeable future.

So now these people have always had an issue with the shot too??? I don't think that is correct. I think this is just another excuse giving people something to complain about. As I said, find a league anywhere in the US that has a bunch of 220+ average bowlers in it, and toughen up their shot. I have seen it happen. One center where I grew up in PA tried it very early on after short-oil came out. They were forced to go back to the easy shot because bowlers were threatening to walk out of the center. They would go bowl in another center just to score well, no matter the fact that bowling on the tougher pattern would have made them better bowlers, better at the SPORT of bowling. People don't want bowling to a sport anymore, they don't want skill to actually figure into who wins and loses. All they want is high scores, lots of stirkes, and lots of honor scores. And I'm sorry if it makes me sound elite, but I would not want to bowl in the USBC Open on an easy condition. An Eagle is one of the most prestigous awards one can win in our sport. I want to know that any money I win or lose at the USBC Open is done because of my actual skill as a bowler, not because someone outcarried me.

I don't mean this in a bad way, the USBC Open/ABC Championships have always been about the Elite bowlers. My father and his team had no shot at winning an Eagle when they went 30 years ago. Not once did I hear them complain about the shot. The Elite bowlers have always won the Eagles. Why now is it an issue? Again the shot has always been tough, to varying degrees. This year it has swung a little more to the harder side, no question, but other years it has swung the other way, see Billings for example. It will always swing back and forth a little bit. You mention the breakdown of membership.....do you think that has suddenly changed? I am willing to bet that breakdown has always been there. The difference again is the fact that the league shots have gotten too easy and people's averages are not equal to their skill level. In the past, the league shots were tougher, so one's league average was closer to what one could expect to bowl at the USBC Open. Yes, you more times then not came in under your average but not by much. Now, people's averages are 10,15, even 20 pins/game higher then their real skill level. And then when they hit the USBC Open, they don't even come close to their league averages. I am no different, I average about 197.5 at the USBC Open, a far cry from my 230+ league averages on THS. But I know that my 230+ average is a joke and that I am really not that good. Others don't seem to get that fact, and so they complain about the shot being too tough.

Jorge300

txbowler · « **Reply #63 on:** March 20, 2012, 01:48:04 PM »

I think the difference that is starting to appear now is that most of your standard league bowlers have grown up in the 220+ era of THS. They were not around when the lanes were tougher and the balls were not the high-tech marvels of today. It's a different generation of bowler.

Everyone keeps talking about back in the day. That generation is going away. USBC and the open needs to determine if the current way of doing things will keep the current generation of bowlers happy.

WOWZERS · « **Reply #64 on:** March 20, 2012, 01:51:09 PM »

Jorge,

I think you make many good points, but in the end, I still think we need to open up the tournament to more bowlers in the sense of scoring. I do agree that we know you and I are not 230 or 220 average bowlers. That is why I average 205 on Sport and you mentioned a 197 average at USBCs. We understand that, but we are the exception to this. I hope to grind out some 600s in a few weeks and make some dough in brackets. I think it can be done with some good spare shooting and not getting into trouble on the first shot.

Good luck!

Russell · « **Reply #65 on:** March 20, 2012, 02:25:03 PM »

There are a lot of good responses here....but I think there is something missing. The people who win are those who are the best...isn't that the point of a championship? I mean let's think about what would happen to scoring if they really made them soft. In the past couple of years the pattern was far from "easy", yet guys were still pushing 2300+ in all events. Can you imagine if they actually made them easy. Guys would bang out 2250 all events, leaving a couple of corner pins here and there and come home with a big bar tab, nothing more.

Look at your local tournaments...city...state....what are their participation numbers trending? In Georgia ours are very quickly declining. Each year they are held on china and it takes 2200 to even think about making any money. I bowled city this year for the first time in a while because it was in my center...no other reason.

Let's look at participation in Nationals....with the DRAMATIC decline in league bowling the tournament has grown between 1980 and a few years ago when the economy tanked. Why is that? It keeps getting bigger because of the challenge...because on that condition all it takes is a couple of big games at the right time. You shoot 700 in singles...you probably just paid for your trip....1320 in doubles...something to be proud of....3000 in team...here's a nice check.

You start catering to the guys with 450 revrates that need a small Volkswagen down the lane to hit the pocket and you'll lose what's left of the game's credibility. Imagine if the PGA tour made all of the holes 440 yard par 4s with 60 yard wide fairways and flat greens. How would Tiger's ability to shape shots be an asset then?...would golf be as exciting watching the guys just come out of their shoes and shoot 60 every day? Before someone calls me on it, yes we're talking about amateur bowling and that is professional golf....but it's a national championship...not a "feel good" gathering of house mouses.

Keep the integrity....keep the scores lower....keep the guys who don't want to put the time and effort into the game off of the leaderboard. If that's too much to swallow....find another sport that will let you put an hour into it a week and be "elite"......oh wait there isn't one.

Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

Jorge300 · « **Reply #66 on:** March 20, 2012, 02:30:08 PM »

Wowzers,

I am going next week actually, and I hope for the same. Thanks for the wishes of luck and may the bowling gods shine on you as well as you make your trip to Baton Rouge.

Plus, I know I am the exception to the rule, as you are. I have seen it first hand. I don't understand why though. I just can't fathom someone going to the USBC Open, bowling bad, and saying the shot is too hard. My first reaction is that I threw the ball bad, I need to get better, and I need to work at x,y, z in order to make that happen. Have you ever heard a baseball player blame something else for why they failed to perform? A football player?? I never hear them say, I would have hit the game winning home run but the stadium makes it too hard to hit homeruns. Yet bowlers are always first to blame other things, especially the shot being too hard. It goes back to what I said earlier, I think, and that is that people do not want the Sport of bowling, just the easy "game" it has become.

WOWZERS wrote on 3/20/2012 11:51 AM:
Jorge,

I think you make many good points, but in the end, I still think we need to open up the tournament to more bowlers in the sense of scoring. I do agree that we know you and I are not 230 or 220 average bowlers. That is why I average 205 on Sport and you mentioned a 197 average at USBCs. We understand that, but we are the exception to this. I hope to grind out some 600s in a few weeks and make some dough in brackets. I think it can be done with some good spare shooting and not getting into trouble on the first shot.

Good luck!

Jorge300

storm making it rain · « **Reply #67 on:** March 20, 2012, 02:31:48 PM »

I think as with anything, Nationals is what you make of it. I preface my comments by stating that I'm a high average bowler at home, i've been going to nationals since it was in Syracuse, and I go with my family and a companion team from our center that doesnt understand the teamwork factors involved.

Although anyone can catch fire and have a great two days of bowling and possibly win that all elusive Eagle, 95% of all the bowlers that attend KNOW they don't realistically have a shot but yet keep going. For me personally there's still plenty of money to be made out there without being the top 5% of the field. The last few years my trips have cost me absolutely nothing to go with my winnings in brackets/tourney prizes. Could I win an Eagle, sure anything is possible on any given squad.

I believe the scoring conditions should stay hard, afterall this is the NATIONAL Tournament. The only thing that could even it out slightly is not to release the pattern so people could strategize for months before going. But in this day and age of the internet and so forth that is nearly impossible.

Bottom line is the cream will just about always rise to the top of the leaderboard. If some of the SUPER house guys can't handle the tougher shots, it's pretty simple don't waste your money to go. I think there's a certain pride factor to bowling in the Nationals, honestly my 9 other guys on our teams know they have no shot at winning an Eagle, but yet we go every year no matter the location.

Good luck to those that are going soon, I'll be making the trip the end of May.

WOWZERS · « **Reply #68 on:** March 20, 2012, 02:58:47 PM »

Jorge,

Agreed. First thing that comes to my mind is did I come around the ball...was I too soft...too firm? What did I do wrong. The problem is most of the bowlers today did not come up like this. Its they always throw the ball crisp and on the money and the pin was off spot or the lane did this or whatever. Frustrating, but that is where our game is at today.

Good luck to you as well. Hope you throw the ball well and score well.

Wowzers

Russ,

Once again, you and I are the exception. I can bowl well enough to stay with some horses for a little while, but eventually I will make more mistakes and lose over a long format, just like the good old PBA days. The problem is when we lock the membership's tourney into a tourney that only a handful of groups can win, eventually we will lose something. Look at what happened when the PBA went to exempt fields. We lost Hoskins and other greats because they did not make the exempt cut. Now that the exempt tour is going away, will those bowlers come back? Nope. We lost them forever. Apply the same principle here. We are locking out a group of bowlers. Once we lose them, we lost them forever. We cannot afford that right now.

I would be in favor of splitting the USBC into 2 divisions...one for the Sport shot and one for the little bit harder than house shot. Enter both if you wish or pick your poison. Then, we have catered to the folks who want to spray and pray while we split boards on the Sport shot.

How would you do prize funds or awards. I have no idea. Just throwing out some thoughts on how to retain a piece of our membership we are about to lose if something does not change.

Wowzers

Uncle Crusty · « **Reply #69 on:** March 20, 2012, 03:38:00 PM »

I completely, totally, unquestionably agree with people like Russell when it comes to the Open Championships. I usually bowl a couple THS leagues every season, and I'll be the first to admit that me and the crew of guys I bowl with have been known to partake in our fair share of adult beverages at the lanes, talk plenty of smack to one another, be a little boisterous, and, in general, not take it too seriously. At the end of the day, we just want to have a good time, pop off a couple honor scores on the mega-wall, make some questionable ball choices, flag some easy spares, and maybe make a couple bucks.

But when it comes to the Open Championships, it's a totally different mentality. We try to assemble the most talented group of guys possible. We spend months talking strategy. We practice as much as possible. We spend plenty of time at the shop drilling stuff we know might work. We do our research (for example, while most of the world was out celebrating their Irish heritage this weekend, at least one guy in our group was at home with pen and pad in hand watching the live stream of the Team USA Support teams hoping to get a read). We communicate. At the end of the day, we put the time, effort, and money into the tournament that gives us the best chance of success, and I'm certain that's why we collectively fare very well every year. Of course, there are and will continue to be off years for everyone (myself most definitely included), but it's seldom due to lack of effort.

That said, I find it insulting (and unfortunately very telling of the current state of the game) that people (and these people are everywhere, I'm in no way calling out anyone in particular) expect to saunter onto the tournament lanes having done no research or put in any practice time, plop their feet on 30, fire their favorite piece into the track for 9 games, shoot 2,200+, make a fortune, and maybe win an Eagle. If you put in the time and effort, you'll probably succeed. If you don't, then you'll probably be disappointed. And frankly, that's how it should be. It's called "Championships" for a reason. The best should (and will) rise to the top. It's that simple.

"Nobody in the game of football should be called a genius. A genius is somebody like Norman Einstein."

-Broadcasting Extraordinaire and Mensa Member Joe Theismann

Edited by Uncle Crusty on 3/20/2012 at 1:41 PM

Bill Thomas · « **Reply #70 on:** March 20, 2012, 04:08:16 PM »

TDC57 made the most intelligent post i have read on this thread. Everyone should go back and read it again. What he says makes a whole lot of sense.

Bill Thomas · « **Reply #71 on:** March 20, 2012, 04:55:04 PM »

More intelligent input from WOWZERS. What many of you are failing to see is that the USBC Open is losing bowlers. No matter what the reason, i.e. Reno, sport conditions, whatever, if the losing of entries continues the tournament will turn into something other that a "national" championship. USBC treats the tournament as a "cash cow" to fund their operations. How long do you think it will be with continuing decline in entries before either USBC has to charge an exorbitant fee or change the tournament to something that will attract more entries. I say they need to offer a couple of tiers based on USBC Open Tournament averages. Maybe 170 and under, 180-200, 201 and above. With the higher classification being the one where "Eagles" are awarded and anyone is allowed to enter that category, including all PBA members and without limitation as to the number on a team, that would be a true "National Championship". To continue to force the average bowlers to compete with former PBA champions, regional PBA title holders, Team USA members, and other means of loading teams IMO will eventually be the death of the USBC Open.

Edited by Bill Thomas on 3/20/2012 at 2:56 PM

bhsbigcountry · « **Reply #72 on:** March 20, 2012, 05:20:21 PM »

WOWZERS wrote on 3/20/2012 11:51 AM:
Jorge,

I think you make many good points, but in the end, I still think we need to open up the tournament to more bowlers in the sense of scoring. I do agree that we know you and I are not 230 or 220 average bowlers. That is why I average 205 on Sport and you mentioned a 197 average at USBCs. We understand that, but we are the exception to this. I hope to grind out some 600s in a few weeks and make some dough in brackets. I think it can be done with some good spare shooting and not getting into trouble on the first shot.

Good luck!

So then appealing to joe house bowler who wants to be good without practicing is the way to fix the situation? I dont understand why we have to appeal to people who dont take the time to truely understand the game and want to get better at it. I guess this is more my personality. I dont care what it is I want to learn as much as I can about it and practice to get better. I dont expect to be good at golf without practicing and putting the time in. Why should this be different for bowling?

Shawn Naumann

ksucat · « **Reply #73 on:** March 20, 2012, 06:06:51 PM »

I sat in on the directors meeting for the Southwest tournament recently and the discussion about how to improve the tournament came up there again. This tournament has been around for 20+ years and has always been played on a typical house shot. Scores now are outragiously high. However, my view on this is that you can't change the history of this tournament as an experiment to see if you can raise new bowlers. The folks that have been coming for years know what to expect.

Moving on to the USBC Nationals, which is likely the most prestigious with the most participants that us amateurs have. The long century-long history is that this is held on difficult conditions that put a premium on shot-making abilities and knowledge of adjustments including working as a team. I think the consensus is to keep the shot difficult, but this doesn't mean the same for everyone. Too many different styles to make it the same difficulty for everyone. I've personally ranged almost 500 pins from highest to lowest all-events over the years.

I choose to go to Nationals for the chance to compete on a challenging lane condition and beat most of my fellow bowlers. I go trying to finish in the top 100 with an eagle being only a dream. A top 100 finish in this tournament along with brackets will typically pay for a nice vacation out of this.

I'd also agree with the sentiment of changing sites more often as Reno is a bit tiring and not what the century-old tradition has been.

Jorge300 · « **Reply #74 on:** March 20, 2012, 06:12:11 PM »

Bill,

I have no issues with adding a new division. But with each divide you invite a new set of problems, for example....what is the fair distribution of money? How much higher will the overhead costs be trying to verify averages for 2 divisions instead of one? How many more people will sandbag to get into a lower tier under this system? What about the 180 average bowler having to compete with a 200 average bowler, is that fair??? Every argument made today can be made again even with a 3 tier system. And what happens is you wind up with something like the Women's championship with it's 5 or 6 divisions and lower entries then even the USBC Open.

Shawn,

Great post and I agree 100%.

I would like to ask that those arguing for easier conditions answer the important question raised by Shawn. Would baseball change it's game to make it easier for people.....making all pitchers throw underhand? Would football change it's game to make it easier for the regular guy to play??? Why should bowling be the only SPORT ( I emphasize that again, bowling is a sport) to make it easier for the "regular joe" to compete against the best??

Jorge300

Edited by Jorge300 on 3/20/2012 at 4:13 PM

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #75 on:** March 20, 2012, 08:34:54 PM »

I agree on when possible having the tournament travel some to other parts of the country. It makes it easier for some to travel from all over the country to bowl this event. It also opens the tournament regionally in areas to new bowlers that normally wouldn't travel to Reno and in turn may get more bowlers interested in traveling to the event that previously wouldn't.

Another option depending on the turn out for each division would be dividing it up in to three average groups. Say 0-160, 161-200, and 201+

There may not be enough bowlers to support that but it could be another option to consider for bowlers in there respected average groups. If you truly average 180 your only donating at this tournament for the experience. Just a thought.

"1 of 1."