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Author Topic: Bagger leading USBC Classified  (Read 7879 times)

riggs

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Bagger leading USBC Classified
« on: February 29, 2008, 08:50:59 PM »
This should make anyone who loves bowling sick to their stomach. USBC absolutely MUST find a way to DQ and eliminate this guy forever from the USBC.



http://community.bowl.com/forums/t/86647.aspx?PageIndex=1
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agroves

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Re: Bagger leading USBC Classified
« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2008, 12:06:06 AM »
The lack of USBC concern does not suprise me.  I don't see why they can't move this guy to the regular division or DQ him all together.  The tournament officials should have the authority to deal with situations just like this.  To say, "well, he has already bowled so there is nothing we can do", is laughable.  You wouldn't know he was bagging until he bowled!  

If I see a golfer commit a rules violation, I can call into the network and get him DQ'd(not that I would).


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Andrew


Edited on 3/6/2008 2:21 AM
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janderson

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Re: Bagger leading USBC Classified
« Reply #32 on: March 11, 2008, 02:13:37 PM »
quote:
Wonder if this is just one more guy shooting on sport/pba conditions without sanctioning the league as such. I have heard via the grapevine that there is a lot of this going on in recent years. Also, there are bowlers who seek out tough, low scoring houses so as to keep their average lower without sacrificing their talent


I'm guilty of seeking out tougher conditions to learn adjustment/transition/etc, and I've seen my average dip, but I have never and will never take advantage of a handicap system (which the classified division essentially is) simply by not entering handicap tournaments.  Perhaps that's why I'll never be accused of cheating.
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J.J. "Waterola Kid" Anderson, the bLowling King  : Kill the back row
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janderson

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Re: Bagger leading USBC Classified
« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2008, 02:21:33 PM »
quote:
BTW, bowling in a league with Sport certifiable conditions and not making it a Sport league should be against USBC rules.


While I agree with your reasoning behind this statement, as an organizer of sport and PBA experience leagues, it is hard enough to get a center to host a league (or even 1-day tournament) on something other than the standard house shot, let alone get them to pull tape and fulfill the other requirements to fully sanction as a sport league.  Many proprietors see it as too much work, yet it seems necessary.

quote:
Part of the problem is there is no national computerized database of tournament results to fight baggers.


If the USBC demands that the centers pull tape to keep sport leagues from degenerating into free-for-all easy house shots, why can't we as bowlers demand of the USBC a computerized implementation for better tracking of a bowler's performance across all venues?  We even pay dues to accomplish things like this. We've had the technology and computing power to achieve this - yes, even with millions of members and games bowled - for more than 10 years.


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J.J. "Waterola Kid" Anderson, the bLowling King  : Kill the back row
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janderson

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Re: Bagger leading USBC Classified
« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2008, 02:26:16 PM »
quote:
The tournament officials should have the authority to deal with situations just like this. To say, "well, he has already bowled so there is nothing we can do", is laughable. You wouldn't know he was bagging until he bowled!


The least the USBC could do is take a stance more like:

"We are in the process of reviewing all of the information at hand.  We understand how this may appear to be a clear case of cheating.  The current rules governing this tournament prevent us from re-rating bowlers after they have completed bowling, but depending upon the results of our investigation, the rules may need to change for next year's competition to promote a more fair and equitable competition for all of our bowlers.  Thank you for bringing this to our attention."



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J.J. "Waterola Kid" Anderson, the bLowling King  : Kill the back row
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boomtown24

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Re: Bagger leading USBC Classified
« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2008, 02:30:02 PM »
quote:
Assuming all the facts are true about this guy's average and records, after thinking a lot about this and talking with some others, I now believe there are only two explanations for this.

1) This guy is the most blatant cheater of all time. He gamed the system and has the USBC somewhat in a corner knowing that they need to find a legally defensible way to DQ him.

2) He is an "accidental" bagger/cheater who didn't realize what he was doing and what might happen.

Stay with me ... think about it: Most "good" baggers go to great lengths to cover what they do, even intentionally bowling bad in tournaments to hold their tournament averages down and cover their tracks. Yet this guy dropped his average a huge amount in one year AND bowled very well in the Regular Division last year. A "good" bagger would have gradually dropped their average, bowled terrible in Regular Division for a couple of years and then crushed the Classified Division. This is just so obvious ... like a criminal leaving fingerprints and DNA and an ID at the crime scene.

I think it's possible this guy might have bowled in this pseduo-Sport league, dropping his average way down, not really realizing what he was doing, perhaps thinking he was just not bowling good. Then he goes and bowls well again at USBC in the Classified Division.

I am NOT saying I believe this but what he did was so obviously blatant as to be stupid, unless he was only interested in gaming the system for one big killing with the belief that USBC could not stop him.

BIG QUESTION: Does this guy have a track record of winning big money in handicap tournaments before this year's USBC.  If not, he might be the accidental bagger, not a blatant cheater.

It is important to note that EITHER WAY HE NEEDS TO BE DEALT WITH BY USBC.

If he is just an accidental bagger he should step forward and say he is sorry and this is not what he meant to have happen and ask to be put in the Regular Division where his career record shows he clearly belongs.  

If he is a blatant cheater USBC needs to find a way to do the right thing. What credibility the organization has in protecting the average bowler is most definitely at stake.


Riggs, have you ever been to Marion IN?  Believe me it explains alot!
This could be a sport league that just wasn't sanctioned as one.  As a member of the local assn. he should know the rules regarding this.  
I apologize for my stance if indeed there was a legit cause for his drop in average.
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riggs

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Re: Bagger leading USBC Classified
« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2008, 03:15:14 PM »
I have not been to Marion, IN, at least that I can remember. Might have a few decades ago.
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riggs

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Re: Bagger leading USBC Classified
« Reply #37 on: March 11, 2008, 03:21:58 PM »
Some interesting historical info:

http://www.bowlingfordumdums.com/page2.html
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chatnboy

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Re: Bagger leading USBC Classified
« Reply #38 on: March 12, 2008, 11:58:05 PM »
so what's the lastest news if any on the proposed "bagger"riggs...???any rattlings going on out there????would like to hear the latest news!!!
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riggs

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Re: Bagger leading USBC Classified
« Reply #39 on: March 13, 2008, 10:36:12 AM »
I do know that this thing is not over but that it's not something that will be settled quickly. People are just going to have to have patience and hope that USBC is able to do the right thing.
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KDawg77

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Re: Bagger leading USBC Classified
« Reply #40 on: March 13, 2008, 01:44:16 PM »
So this doesn't happen to me (in case my average doesn't stay in the open range and drops back into classified): I PROMISE I WILL HAVE MYSELF RERATED FROM MY SORRY BOOK AVERAGE (because I plan on being closer to 205 than 175 next season)!
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Ken
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riggs

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Re: Bagger leading USBC Classified
« Reply #41 on: March 13, 2008, 02:23:43 PM »
A lot of tournaments make people bowl scratch who don't have averages in recent couple of years.
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KDawg77

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Re: Bagger leading USBC Classified
« Reply #42 on: March 13, 2008, 02:25:05 PM »
I believe the rule is that if you have no established average of the minimum games requirement, then you must bowl in the regular division.
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Ken
Sometimes you are the cheetah and sometimes you are the stick...
Videos at http://www.putfile.come/k-dawg77
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KDawg77

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Re: Bagger leading USBC Classified
« Reply #43 on: March 13, 2008, 02:41:39 PM »
Billy, knowing what little I do know about you I'm sure you would be fine. I have a feeling you know what you're doing.

My book average is likely to be in the high 180's if I close well these last six weeks of league. I've struggled all year and normally carry 195-207 range. My USBC Tourney average is only 180 for 27 games. Even though I'm not great, I'd rather be a low regular than a bagging classified bowler.
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Ken
Sometimes you are the cheetah and sometimes you are the stick...
Videos at http://www.putfile.come/k-dawg77
http://www.myspace.com/lefthandedhammerpride
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