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Author Topic: Nationals report  (Read 8707 times)

NOTHUMB

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Nationals report
« on: May 20, 2012, 11:43:42 PM »
Inverted track, nothumber. Above average ball speed and revs.

Our teams all went in with the same basic plan----beat up 4-5-6 in practice and just slowly creep in, then make a hop, and a jump later. Very basic strategy considering what we were seeing. The lanes transition very quickly in whatever zone you choose to play. If you have a group that plays 10-13, then 10-13 will transition quickly and lock you into playing there and farther inside. After bowling, I honestly believe a team of guys who turns the ball a fair amount and likes to play in, could really do a number on this pattern. (Thats MY opinion and obviously up for debate)

Team event
Lanes 25-26
164-243-192---599
I have a constant problem in the team event of not being able to get a feel until halfway through the night. Some would say it's the fact of bowling on the fresh or whatever they may, but you know when you are throwing it well or not----And I was NOT throwing it well at all for the 1st 15 frames. To be honest, I was lucky to have what I did in game 1. I used a 2 Furious and an Anaconda (was fishing with the Anaconda trying to get a better feel). The 2 Furious was what I felt most comfortable with once I got loose. I would say "I was playing X Board to X Board----but I pulled everything from about the 2nd-10th frames of game one. Once I got freed up and the shot transitioned a bit, I threw an awful shot to start game 2, then doubled, then 2-8-10ed. I then ran a 7 bagger to salvage that game and ultimately a respectable set. Playing roughly 18-11.

The last game, the rest of my pair saw the ball track burn. Because I was inside of them, I saw the opposite and the pair got extremely wet dry. I made some good shots and some more shots like I threw in game 1---awful. I probably didnt deserve the 192 I shot. Our team shot 2890 and left a TON of pins out there. I had 7 opens in 3 games.

Doubles
Lanes 17-18
198-204-233---635

This was my most frustrating set to date in 13 trips to Nationals (singles didnt get much better). I threw the ball extremely well, but lane 18 ATE MY LUNCH. 17 essentially had been opened wide open. I couldnt have asked for an easier lane. I went 7 for 7 in game 1 on lane 17 and didnt miss until the 5th frame of game 2. I only missed 2 or 3 times on it all night. Lane 18 however, I didnt strike on it until the 10th frame of game 2 when I doubled in the 10th (on top of a strike in the 9th). The answer----2 Furious on the left lane playing very similar to how I did in the team event. I had roughly 4 boards of room on lane 17. I had 0 boards of room on lane 18. The same spot on lane 18 compared to 17, never hooked and missed the head pin. Moved out, softened up, balled up----all looked worse. Had to ball up and move a zip code left and really soften up the speed. If I got fast, it 2 pinned or worse. But I used an Alpha Max---23 or 24 out to 13, very slow----and found success. The ball would not hook in the backend on that lane. I had to have the ball where I wanted it in the pocket at about 40 feet----because it didnt recover down lane.

I had 3 opens on lane 18 and 1 on lane 17.

Singles
Lanes 19-20
180-218-192---590

I left 4 solid 10s, 2 solid 8s, 1 solid 9, a blower seven, a couple of 4 pins.......and that was all on lane 20. I used the Alpha Max deep inside. In hindsight, I think I was playing the right line, but maybe too much ball. But the fact is, I controlled the pocket, and it was tough to get away from that. Lane 20 after all of that inopportune carry blew up in a bad spot and made it very tough to get the ball to face the 1-3. I survived that reaction to shoot what I did. In S and D I threw only a couple of shots that I was unhappy with. In previous years I feel like I would have had some big numbers----but it just wasnt meant to be this year. 3 opens in this set with a clean 2nd game.

All events----1824.
I am pleased to shoot over 1800 any time. I didnt embarrass myself, but I didnt set the world on fire. But after having 3 out of the last 4 years over 1900, I will accept a nice "boring" 1800 series. The law of averages was definitely in affect----Team, I bowled awful, but scored ok. Doubles and Singles, I bowled well, but only scored ok. In the end, I probably got what I deserved.

When you make little moves left when playing inside of everyone else, the ball REALLY reads the oil. So when you make a move in, dont try to SEND it to the spot, you really have to stay under control and roll it to the spot to get it to read the pattern.

I watched alot of people struggle on spares, I felt the pattern was actually easier for hooking at spares than in previous years. I didnt miss a 3-6-10 (which is normally automatic for me to miss 1 or 2 of these). I missed 3 10 pins which is obviously my fault and didnt cover a 1-2-4. But otherwise, I didnt get anything unexpected from the lanes. I was able to hook at my leftside spares without a problem----my opens were mostly splits. I honestly anticipated more hook than what I saw and in the future will believe NOTHING of what I read or hear. LOL

Some other EXTRA thoughts.....
-The bowling center was definitely chilly. We were directly under vents for team and were frigidly cold. It was insane.

-And now a rant----which I might get flamed for, but oh well. My name is Chris Green, I've never won any Eagles, I've never shot 300 or 800 at Nationals. I finished in the top 100 in All Events once (2008) and 51st in doubles (2002). I shot 290 at the bowling stadium last year. So I've done a few things at Nationals that many others havent. That being said, if my team were finishing 3 frames behind everyone else, I guarantee the USBC would be up my teams butts about finishing on time, etc. I understand that groups that win Eagles have to deal with webcasts and such----but does that mean that they should be giving REGIONAL lane courtesy to them and the pairs around them (explaining why 3 pairs were done later than everyone else). If a team shoots 1180 in one of their games, you would think a few strikes were thrown that game right? So why did it take that pair an extra 20 minutes to bowl? Maybe its the 3 lane courtesy that they were giving and receiving or taking----whatever it may be. It's not bad enough that last year the group was running out shots in front of people in frame 2 of game 3 when neighboring bowlers were on the approach. I'm sorry, but I understand that certain people provide the USBC with free advertising and publicity based on their writings and blogging. I fully understand all of it. But to so clearly ignore the fact that if that were any group but them-----there would be a problem-----is an absolute joke and extremely annoying.

This is not meant to be an attack on any individual, because if I were given perks of being a previous champion, I would take anything to my advantage that I was given. But taking an extra 20 minutes to bowl a team squad in front of an 11:30pm Singles and Doubles squad is ridiculous. Kicking off an already late singles and doubles squad at a later time because people are looking 3 lanes over to see who is up is also uncalled for.

Dinners......
Joe's Crab Shack was an easy choice----good seafood meal there.
Friday was LSU's graduation so our first choice was booked. Our 2nd choice should have been our first choice. Stroubes Seafood and Steaks is a couple of blocks from the River Center (we walked there from the Belle). Myself and 4 friends enjoyed an early dinner there. EVERYTHING we ordered was wonderful. Steak, seafood, duck, dessert----whatever. It was all amazing and had some unique flavor twists. Its a little pricey, but I loved it. And Nadia was an excellent waitress.

The casino at the Belle is pretty run of the mill at best. You could also say run down if you were so inclined. I didnt visit Hollywood casino as we had other plans at different times. Had a great time at Bourbon Street Wednesday night and plan to make another trip to New Orleans to fully enjoy the city.

I think thats it for now.
 
Chris Green
Bowler ID# 2039-6328

 

riggs

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Re: Nationals report
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2012, 08:50:24 AM »
If you are referring to our team, we are guilty of bowling too slow this year. I give one lane of courtesy at USBCs because I am totally comfortable with that, but some of our guys are not. We also had one bowler who for some reason was taking forever in team event (second team).  Heck it bothered me and I commented on it.

I am one of the fastest bowlers around and hate slow bowling but it wasn't as bad as you make it out to be. All the ceremony stuff had our squad starting late. And the 947 start took forever LOL!

And we saw it in minors ... didn't even get on lanes until after 6 p.m. for 5:30 squad.

I also must tell you that the guys on the pair to the right of us made it a point after we were done to tell us how much they enjoyed bowling next to us and that we were class acts. They never complained once about anything we did.

I respect your opinion and some of it is dead-on but you also aren't giving us much credit either and are being pretty disrespectful. Life is rarely black and white -- it's shades of gray.

In many years we have not been the last ones down on our squad.

FYI -- I don't want to start any back and forth with you ... I am conceding some of what you said and respect it. And I will not have Internet for the next few days after today ... at a beach house on vacation.

I will need to have a chat with my teams again, I guess.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2012, 08:56:50 AM by riggs »

NOTHUMB

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Re: Nationals report
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2012, 10:02:32 PM »
Riggs, you and I have chatted a few times regarding Nationals strategy and how to attack the patterns. You have seen me bowl in the past as I have seen you. We obviously know that the other person is no dummy.

I totally understand how 1 person can foul up the timing of an entire pair or pairs surrounding. My dad bowls with a cane and manages, but if you are around him then you are also affected. He walks to the line, gets situated, then gets his hand in the ball, then gets in his stance and takes 1 step and throws while holding his cane on the approach----it takes time.  I 100% acknowledge what you and your group bring to the table. I also understand what the "aura" of your group does to those around you. Often times if someone is up to bowl at their normal time, maybe they wave you on as to not get in the way (in their minds).

My issue isnt so much with your group. This year, the USBC was very lax in alot of departments. Reno 2 years ago, I wore a pair of jeans that had one of those little preripped spots on the the thigh----about an inch long. I spotted someone wearing a pair that was far worse----so I asked a USBC rep. They said "You are fine". I bowled in them. Last year, I brought the same pair of jeans to Reno----and a representative handling to the lines for ball check in stopped me and said "you cant wear those". Um what? Then this year, I saw some of the jeans, shirts, whatever that people were wearing. It was a joke what some of the people were wearing and the USBC just says "Eh whatever".

Our team event, we bowled just to the right of the walkway. Just to the left, was a group of RIDICULOUS bowlers who had obviously pregamed somewhere, and then were in tournament gaming. They were completely inebbriated. They are SCREAMING and YELLING at everything. A bowler makes a spare, they scream. A bowler has the 9 pin caught by the rack, and they yell at the USBC rep behind the main counter right behind the walkway. But they continue to scream and yell. I get that the beer sales help bring in money----but at what cost. They caught my 4 teams, no less than 5 times mid shot. You cant account for 6 lane courtesy. Where was the USBC to say "Hey, you know what----this is our crown jewel, we want to keep it that way".

My comment on your groups slowness is the first out of my mouth because you are the most identifiable. I appreciate your ability to acknowledge what is going on around you. I dont ask that YOU speed up. I dont ask that any individual speeds up. I ask that the USBC does a better job of allowing you to go about your business and win more Eagles. You are a show by yourselves----and without publicizing anything, my group knew when you were bowling. I personally love that you are there during our trip. I love that KR Strikeforce (if thats their name----I dont keep track of names, I just know who throws it good and who doesnt) is on our team squad.

I ask you to do nothing----but its clear that the USBC definitely takes into account what you think and believe. So why not say simply "Let us bowl". You can run the camera, and everything else. They can announce you as the previous years champs and however many time champs----I get ALL of that. But the USBC needs to decide----are they going to be IN THE WAY, as they were last year. Or out of the way, as they were this year. I would just like them to be consistent either way.

I hope that makes sense. As you know, I support good bowling, and the proper approach (as many people think bowling without your thumb means you cant bowl). But the USBC needs to take an approach and stick with it. If they want things to run more timely or more in tune, they need to be consistent about it. If that means starting your announcements earlier because you and your group has won an unbelievable amount of titles, fine. At that point everyone is on the same level. I hope this doesnt come across as sour grapes. Because I have nothing but respect for what you've done in your USBC career and what the rest of your group has accomplished. Shady's numbers, your numbers, Mcdowell----everyone. That isnt a USBC gift. Its not like you are bowling on a house shot compared to everyone else. I have the deepest respect for all that you do and all that you will continue to do. When you bowl well, I'll be the 1st to congratulate you. It just struck me as odd, the way it all played out----thats all.

I have a habit of being extra blunt to make a point. I hope my point comes across, while still a level of objectivity to say "I get it". Enjoy your vacation, and hopefully you can respond in the future----whether via PM or otherwise.

NOTHUMB
« Last Edit: May 21, 2012, 10:08:53 PM by NOTHUMB »
Chris Green
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JOE FALCO

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Re: Nationals report
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2012, 11:02:02 PM »
NO THUMB .. very well written .. you get your point across loud and clear!
RIP Thongprincess/Sawbones!

Andyman3333

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Re: Nationals report
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2012, 10:53:10 AM »
I just watched the video and I don't think the problem was so much lane courtesy.  From what I saw, lane courtesy was fine.  I think it was more or less not playing ready bowling.  On most shots, the guy on the one lane would wait until the guy on the other lane had finished their shot and got off the approach before getting up on the approach and settling in for their own shot.  Most groups don't learn something from every shot thrown so they are on the approach ready to throw as the guy on the other lane throws his ball.  Riggs team is so intune with every shot made that they gather information from each shot and I can see how it would be hard to be on the approach in your ready stance and trying to concentrate on what you have to do to make a good shot while also trying to gather info on the lane next to you from your teammates shot.  I'm not sure anyone actually sat down during their entire team event.  Lol.

Over the course of three games, you could easily be behind by 3 frames.  I generally am on the approach in my ready stance as the guy on the other lane is walking back.  I've been walked out in front of enough times in the middle of my approach that I just wait until they clear the approach before starting.   

Needless to say, I'm not sure it really matters whether or not they were three frames behind.  When we were there, almost every squad got started late.  Our doubles and singles was almost an hour late at 11:30 am.  We were the last pair to get started and finished just as they were completing announcements for the 2:30 squad. 

We had no problems with the alcohol and didn't notice any rowdy teams.  I try to understand that probably 80% of the people bowling in that event are spending more than they are winning and for most, it's a vacation tournament.  I'm sure people showed up pre-lit before the event in years past when alcohol wasn't being served.  For many of the guys that come with us, they go to have a good time.  And being a member of a Men's league, I'm used to rowdy so wouldn't be all that distracted either way.  I'm not personally a fan of the ripped jeans look and I'm not sure how that became a fad.  When we start seeing pre-ripped slacks, we should start to worry about the trend.  But I appreciate the dress code being enforced.   

NOTHUMB

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Re: Nationals report
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2012, 01:46:59 AM »
Andy, all of that is valid. The idea that they communicate amongst each other is part of what makes their team so successful. But you mention that being only 3 frames behind could happen to anyone. Sure----if they were any other team, it could happen to anyone. But they obviously threw some strikes in game 2 and game 3 right? From what I understand (and this is just through word of mouth, so dont quote me on this) but they actually caught up to be 3 frames behind.

Again, I got on my soapbox and got a topic discussed. I dont begrudge them for being slow. Just USBC's selective discretion. Maybe its because in years past we've had issues waiting for other bowlers or issues with score changes or respots and then the USBC Reps come down and say "You have to complete your set in X time". Oh really? I do? Why? Because of bad luck? Because of someone else? That's what frustrates me.

Riggs group is not the 1st I've seen this for however. Reno 2 years ago, our team event was on with another Eagle winning team (cant for the life of me remember who) and they made a run at the top 10 that year. Excellent bowling to be sure. But again, that group was multiple frames behind people. Why? If they are striking, why are they getting so far behind. Amazingly that year I felt like we were slow----but because that group was that much slower, we got left alone. Alot of USBC's rules seem to be made out of convenience for whats easy or popular to enforce. I'd rather they just enforce the rules they have, then remove any that they decide they hate. I dont want to come back next year, be 2 frames behind because my dad bowls with a cane and takes awhile, then have a rep come to me and say "You guys are gonna have to pick it up". I might have to strangle someone if that happens.
Chris Green
Bowler ID# 2039-6328

riggs

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Re: Nationals report
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2012, 09:13:37 AM »
For some reason this was a slow year for us. In many other years we have NOT been the last one done on our squad.

Reasons include it being the lowest score we've shot in years -- not near as many strikes in games 1 & 3 ... lots of confusion with lanes and lots of team discussion, which slowed us down ... and the one player on our second team that was really slow this year after going through a bunch of changes with his game.

Chris, you make a lot of good points ... I am on vacation and don't have time to address them ... and if I were to I would put them in a blog ... they go way beyond us anyway and more properly belong in a letter to USBC. 

There are a lot of things that happen with that tournament that are inconsistent. Example: Brunswick Slide Stone -- is illegal I am told and I can't tell you how many people said they used it.


Hoselrockets

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Re: Nationals report
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2012, 09:34:07 AM »
In some cases (many) we have been the last team done but I sometimes think its not us going slow it just everyone else bowls fast :)


TWOHAND834

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Re: Nationals report
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2012, 11:33:23 AM »
The main difference between Adult Tournaments and Kids Tournaments is the simple fact that kids dont focus half as much as the adults do.  My son bowled his State Tournament this past weekend.  They had 3 on a lane for S/D.  They bowled the 6 games in 2.5 hours.  For my State Tournament, we also had 3 on each lane for S/D.  We took 4.5 hours to bowl the same amount of games.  Reasons are kids are not so consumed with what lanes are doing, if they need to make a ball change, and socializing.  Adults want more lane courtesy than they need, always analyzing what lanes are doing, contemplating ball changes, wondering where the next beverage is, etc.....  There was a guy on the pair next to me who threw the ball like total arse, but insisted on having 2-3 lanes courtesy on both sides of him.  It caused quite a few others to back off the approach because you could see him with peripheral vision stepping onto the approach and then backing off.  So your focus was gone and you had to back off and start over again.  It got extremely frustrating.  I wanted to say something but took the higher road and didnt say anything.  I gave the jerk off his 3 lanes and then laughed on the inside when he shot 140. 

But is guys like that that slow the pace of play down.  Because we had this issue with the moron to our right wanting PBA lane courtesy, we noticed in the third game we were 3-4 frames behind everyone else.  So then we started to walk up on him not caring that he seemed to need his PBA lane courtesy.  We caught up to the other teams for the most part but were about 5 minutes later than everyone else in the squad to finish, except for the idiots to our right.  If pace of play is an issue, then USBC officials need to watch more closely to those that are causing the issue and approach them and say either you abide by the one lane courtesy rule or you will get a 0 for the frame in which you dont.  I am sure when you start making threats to their scores, things will change.
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ccrider

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Re: Nationals report
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2012, 01:34:27 PM »
Yea, but I do not think they will tell an Eagle team that they will get a zero. The poster is complaining about inconsistent application of the rules--a discrimination of sort, based on who you are. Or, may be based on what makes the most economical sense to the people enforcing the rules. That's life. May be wrong, but that's life.

ccrider

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Re: Nationals report
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2012, 01:36:01 PM »
By the way, lane courtesy is wayyyyyy overhyped. One lane should be the rule everywhere. That's a plenty.

riggs

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Re: Nationals report
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2012, 02:15:30 PM »
Watch the video - I give 1 lane often ... Though many of our guys do not.

If all bowling followed PBA rules it would be faster!!!  The PBA rule works as good as anything. But u have to go when it us your turn!!!

Jorge300

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Re: Nationals report
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2012, 03:21:54 PM »
I have not seen the video yet so I can't comment on that. But what Riggs said is correct. Even giving 2 or 3 lanes works well and goes rather quickly when all are doing it and everyone is ready to bowl when it is their turn. The issues happen when one group or one individual wants a different courtesy then what the majority of the rest are giving. If everyone is giving one lane, and someone wants PBA courtesy, then it slows down the pace considerably. Conversely, if everyone is giving PBA courtesy and someone only gives 1 lane, it will also slow down the pace. The only way either work well is when they are done consistently and by all.
Jorge300

Pinbuster

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Re: Nationals report
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2012, 03:49:07 PM »
First probably 80+% of the bowlers at the Open don't understand PBA lane courtesy. It wouldn't work to try and teach it.

Second the USBC rule for the tournament is 1 lane. They tell you that in the squad room. If you can't abide by that then maybe you shouldn't be bowling the tournament.

I've never had a problem with one lane. The only time I have any issues is when someone yells, falls down, or makes some other loud noise. But that might bother me 2 or 3 lanes away as well. 

Pinbuster

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Re: Nationals report
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2012, 04:36:06 PM »
When they first went to this squad schedule it seemed like all the squads started on time. It was a welcome change.

But I too have noticed in recent years that the squads have begun not starting on time. I don't know what the cause of this is.

I suppose some of it could be because of the increase in classified bowlers who are struggling with the conditions but I really don't know.