So the USBC has gone to this new 3-teir system to both boost entries and supposedly stop sandbaggers and I'm here to tell you it wont work.  Her is why:

Why have a guy in my area (Tacoma) who rarely bowls over 21 league games a year and averages anywhere between 173 (50+ games) to 184 (24 games), in fact this individual bowls a league every few years, just enough to have an average.  He used to be a 200+ average guy.

Entering this years event his Open average shows as 186 which is a 213 upconverted.  Amazingly this year he manages to shoot less than 1000 for doubles and singles to lower his tournament average to 180 which lowers his converted average to 207 so now he gets to bowl in the middle division.

I should also mention this guy won a classified all events Eagle

So for anyone who believes the USBC will catch sandbaggers, I wouldn't hold my breath.  Cheating will just be on a different level now.

Wow.  There will ALWAYS be a very small percentage of individuals who will go to extreme lengths.  However, think about this, he completely TANKED this year to just get himself down to the middle division for next year.  He spent however much money it cost to go out to the tournament, bowled terribly, all with the express point of lowering himself down to the middle division for next year . . this is the reason these new rules DO work.  Guy had to completely waste $1000+ and an entire YEAR just to get down to the MIDDLE division, where he's still going to have to put in a ton of work, and perform at the right time next year, just to possibly place and make a few bucks.  ZERO chance he makes enough to cover the loss this year and expenses next year.  How would YOU combat sandbagging then?  So just because they can't catch every single cheater going to some ridiculously extreme extents, the whole thing is a waste and a wash?  But as hard as he's trying to "cheat," you're trying even harder to find something to complain about.  Sounds like a bowler to me. 

So you REALLY think hundreds of people are going to intentionally go to these extremes just to change divisions for next year?  Myself, I'd bowl well this year, make money, and practice harder for next year.  Much easier and cheaper than the alternative. 

Yes, which would explain his sandbagging in league.  What would explain his sandbagging at the Open?  That's the whole point of this post and what the guy was accused of.  These rules were only instituted at the Open, for the Open, and the Open is what we are talking about . .

Quote from: milorafferty on March 29, 2016, 01:29:11 PM

Quote from: ITZPS on March 29, 2016, 01:16:54 PM

Yes, which would explain his sandbagging in league.  What would explain his sandbagging at the Open?  That's the whole point of this post and what the guy was accused of.  These rules were only instituted at the Open, for the Open, and the Open is what we are talking about . .

Not if his local tournaments use the higher of his listed averages on bowl.com, including his tournament average. We have several in this area that does exactly that.

And yes, we are talking about the Open. But the extent of why these idiot do this crap goes way beyond that one tournament.

BUT, since we ARE talking about he Open, I would almost guarantee you that there will be a large group from my area that are planning on Vegas, THIS year.

Being in No. Cal. the cost will be nowhere near $1000 for their trip. $180-$200 for entry, Split the $50 for gas to Reno and back, and split a room at the Sands for one night and the entire cost for this year will be well under $300.

Your local uses the USBC Open average?  I was wondering if someone would, problem in this case is he wont have 27 games in until after Vegas so he will be allowed to bowl Classified.  Oh well, what do I expect for $27 dues.

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I thought it said local tournaments could use them, in fact I think it might have said we (USBC) hope they sue them but it doesn't say they have to use them.

Actually it doesn't matter to me, I don't bowl handicapped events out of principle.