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Author Topic: Nice Article on Classified Leader  (Read 2209 times)

earmite26

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Nice Article on Classified Leader
« on: March 16, 2008, 03:59:48 AM »
Check this out.  Notice how he also won the handicap division in the MBA Tournament. Why would somebody who bowls only in a scratch league be bowling in the handicap division in a tournament?

http://www.chronicle-tribune.com/articles/2008/03/14/news/doc47d9eceed0c3f082631873.txt
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Edited on 3/16/2008 12:00 PM
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ThongPrincess

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Re: Nice Article on Classified Leader
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2008, 12:09:00 PM »
quote:
Kistler took a 181 average into the tournament


Interesting - 180 is the max for Classified.  Then they say the lane conditions are tougher than the Nationals shot.  Since Nationals is sport compliant then that tells me it is a league that puts out sport without sanctioning it sport.
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bass

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Re: Nice Article on Classified Leader
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2008, 12:28:36 PM »
The gentleman in question is a BAGGER!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Bill Thomas

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Re: Nice Article on Classified Leader
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2008, 01:25:32 PM »
Why don't we all e-mail the author of this article and let him know of the contoversy surrounding Kistler's average?  It seems to me that USBC is not going to do anything unless Kistler can be pressured to say whether he knew that he manipulated the average that placed him in the classified division.  Maybe the threat of a followup article about the controversy could help the truth to be determined.

Edited on 3/16/2008 1:27 PM
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JONES_E828

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Re: Nice Article on Classified Leader
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2008, 06:18:15 PM »
I don't believe the guy is sandbagging.  The scratch league he bowls in has an average cap.(used to be 800 for a four player team). Also the bowling center he bowls in is in less than stellar condition, with a staff that has less than stellar knowledge about lane maintainence. I used to drill equipment for the guy in the late 90's, and know he's an honest guy. He throws it straight, and when the patterns are china, he's capable of averaging 215. With the current conditions he's bowling on, the best he's gonna average is maybe 185-190. Throw in the fact he's only bowling 3 games a week, and a 170-180 average is entirely possible. The bottom line is the guy tries his best week in and week out on whatever he's bowling on. When you add up bowling on junk lanes with junk conditions and a little bit of luck the end result is he wound up leading the nationals.
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chatnboy

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Re: Nice Article on Classified Leader
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2008, 07:00:52 PM »
well JONES_E828....i look at things this way,if the lanes and conditions are junk.....why would an experienced bowler such as the one in question bowl on them like that????because he knows that he cant bowl the WAY that hes capable of doing!!!!and that his average wont be as high as hes capable of bowling.it seems to me that this man is very accomplished in the bowling game and is not a dummy.and giving his prior experiences bowling in the u.s.b.c. tournaments.....you can see why everybody thinks hes a sandbagger!!!!!hes just got too much experience to be bowling with the lower classified division when hes always bowled in the regular division.and the only people i know that bowl in a scratch league are the ones that are looking to bowl with better people and those better people.....which one do you think he is????
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riggs

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Re: Nice Article on Classified Leader
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2008, 07:47:37 PM »
Jones, if you are right, he would be what I classified as an "accidental" bagger. What is relevant is his averages in past years, his average AT THE USBC TOURNAMENT, and the fact that he's been in the Regular Division. All of those facts should ensure that he is in the Regular Division this year. And if he IS an honest man he should step forward and acknowledge that fact and ask to be moved to the Regular Division.
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someguyintucson

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Re: Nice Article on Classified Leader
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2008, 09:48:52 PM »
quote:
I don't believe the guy is sandbagging.  The scratch league he bowls in has an average cap.(used to be 800 for a four player team). Also the bowling center he bowls in is in less than stellar condition, with a staff that has less than stellar knowledge about lane maintainence. I used to drill equipment for the guy in the late 90's, and know he's an honest guy. He throws it straight, and when the patterns are china, he's capable of averaging 215. With the current conditions he's bowling on, the best he's gonna average is maybe 185-190. Throw in the fact he's only bowling 3 games a week, and a 170-180 average is entirely possible. The bottom line is the guy tries his best week in and week out on whatever he's bowling on. When you add up bowling on junk lanes with junk conditions and a little bit of luck the end result is he wound up leading the nationals.


So how do you explain the scores from the County League at Crest Lanes?:

http://www.chronicle-tribune.com/articles/2008/03/10/sports/doc47d4b8bbb6387450123272.txt

I would buy your story if every league had lower scores because of the junk conditions and junk lanes.
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someguyintucson

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Re: Nice Article on Classified Leader
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2008, 09:56:11 PM »
From the linked article:

“Equipment is the difference,” he said. “I bought a ball at (USBC) last year and they gave me the wrong weight, and they drilled it wrong. So I struggled with it.

Rank Event Division Games Prize Score
443  Team  Regular  177,246,192  130  2929  
738  Singles  Regular  227,246,213  262  686  
1142  All Events  Regular  615,589,686  112  1890  
3776  Doubles  Regular  190,227,172  50  1165  

I hope that I struggle this bad next week when I bowl in my first USBC Open
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JONES_E828

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Re: Nice Article on Classified Leader
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2008, 10:10:06 PM »
I'm not going to get into an arguing match here. I just don't think it is cool for someone to be dragged through the mud for just showing up and bowling his 3 games each week. He is once a week league bowler. In response to your question "why would an experienced bowler such as the one in question bowl on them like that????" There are 3 centers in Marion. One has beat up guardian, one has beat up wood(freshly resurfaced in 2001), and the last (the one on which he bowls) has 15 year old HPL's. All of the centers are in rough shape. So IMO  his choice was either bowl in a dungeon, or don't bowl at all. What would you do?  I agree he probably should have told usbc to put him in the regular division, but I don't think he's an intentional bagger. Accidental bagger?, maybe.

Edited on 3/16/2008 10:14 PM
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BeansProShop

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Re: Nice Article on Classified Leader
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2008, 12:46:12 AM »
What about those scores in the county league????

4  700's????

Last I checked..That wasn't hard!!!!

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someguyintucson

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Re: Nice Article on Classified Leader
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2008, 02:02:35 AM »
2007 USBC Open - Regular Division  $554 in winnings
Rank Event Division Games Prize Score
443  Team  Regular  177,246,192  130  2929  
1142  All Events  Regular  615,589,686  112  1890  
738  Singles  Regular  227,246,213  262  686  
3776  Doubles  Regular  190,227,172  50  1165  

2008 USBC Open - Classified Division  $6250*  (* - projected winnings)
Rank Event Division Games Prize Score
1  Doubles  Classified  213,216,223  2000*  1184  
1  Singles  Classified  256,167,245  2000*  668  
1  All Events  Classified  567,652,668  2250*  1887  
594  Team  Regular  213,186,168  N/A  2633  


Just wanted to make things a little clearer for Jones_E828 as to why I believe Mr. Kistler had a motive for sandbagging in order to enter the tournament in the Classified Division. I'm pretty sure that I've seen episodes of Law & Order where the DA has gotten an indictment with evidence not as solid as this.
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chatnboy

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Re: Nice Article on Classified Leader
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2008, 11:11:55 AM »
it's not about getting into a big dispute JONES_E828....it's all about just plain solid facts.now i'm glad to see that you are very sane...in at least you acknoweldge that he might be an accidental bagger!!!!but you have got to see the bigger picture here.just because he bowls just one league(3 games) a week doesnt mean he still cant put up big scores at the usbc open!!!!and evidently he did so!!!
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