BallReviews
General Category => USBC Tournament => Topic started by: riggs on July 23, 2009, 09:33:36 PM
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Courtesy of a poster on the USBC forum (he didn't do all-events):
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I completely agree with Riggs on this. Overall the scores are not outpacing previous years, especially if you look at the top 150 as Don referenced. It is only the winning scores that are out of sight. Once you get beyond those few at the top, everything seems to fall into place. Look at these comparisons for the last four years:
Team 2009 2008 2007 2006
10th Place 3280 3248 3261 3365
50th Place 3136 3142 3141 3241
100th Place 3085 3078 3081 3149
150th Place 3039 3035 3032 3101
Doubles 2009 2008 2007 2006
10th Place 1440 1420 1417 1412
50th Place 1377 1368 1365 1371
75th Place 1360 1357 1355 1360
Singles 2009 2008 2007 2006
10th Place 783 769 782 774
50th Place 752 744 746 745
100th Place 738 727 733 729
150th Place 728 718 725 720
How can anyone really say that the scoring was so much better when these scores are really no better to very slightly better than previous years. Even at the 10th place level, there is not even a mark per bowler difference in the scores over the last four years. Everyone likes to focus on the winning scores instead of looking at the complete picture. Give credit where credit is due for those that broke the records, because if it was simply the shot was "easier than normal" then you would have seen dramatic increases all across the leaderboard and that is simply not the case as demonstrated above. Congrats to all of this years champions.
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This backs up my conjecture made in other threads that scoring was not out of line historically from the last few years -- other than a couple of amazing scores.
And you would not have those scores ever again if USBC moved minors to all fresh conditions, IMHO. THAT is the problem (if scoring level is your issue).
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Riggs,
I saw this over there too. Very good information and very telling.
I want to debate one small point. I think even if minors went to fresh, you could see scores like we saw this year. But it would take more teamwork and more sacrifice (I guess this is the correct word, let me explain further). Let's hypothesis you and your 2 teams are about to begin doubles on a fresh condition. You stated somewhere, either here or on USBC forums that you ask for your doubles pairings. So now you ask for them this way (I call your team Team A, and your traveling team Team B):
pair 1 Team A 1&2
Pair 2 Team B 1&2
Pair 3 Team A 3&4
Pair 4 Team B 3&4
Pair 5 Team A/B and other
What it would take is the Team B pairs to through all in the same spot for the entire 3 games, all 4 bowlers. Now they may sacrifice their scores a little to do so, but they could set the pair up for the switch so that the Team A bowlers could 1) know where the dry area was and 2) have it an area that is condusive to their games. If you want to manipulate the lanes even further (something your team does not do) you could have the team B people throwing 500 grit, 360 grit or even 180 grit surfaces to accelerate the process. If a team does this I think the singles scores could be very high, even on par with the ones this year. But I do think the doubles records would stand for a very long time.
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Jorge300
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Forgot this:
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Here are the honor counts for the last 4 years, just because there were 2 guys that were locked in doesn't mean the scores are up.
300 299 298 800's
2009 32 16 3 5 Plus there were alot more entries this year than normal
2008 31 12 2 2
2007 27 16 9 5
2006 31 16 6 5
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Jorge, we would go 4 guys on one pair and flip with 4 of our other guys on another pair. Would not ask for any undue "sacrifice."
Would be some lane management but nowhere like what you can do in team -- not enough shots.
But singles scores definitely would be higher than doubles scores, if done correctly. Not sure about 850s, 860s, though!!!
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quote:
Jorge, we would go 4 guys on one pair and flip with 4 of our other guys on another pair. Would not ask for any undue "sacrifice."
Would be some lane management but nowhere like what you can do in team -- not enough shots.
But singles scores definitely would be higher than doubles scores, if done correctly. Not sure about 850s, 860s, though!!!
Riggs,
I know you wouldn't ask your companion team to do what I described, but someone might. I think it would be possible for scores like we saw this year, with the right lane management, which may need to be more aggressive then what is used for team event, but I think it could be done.
But since I don't see a time when we will have fresh for minors, it is really a moot point. Just wishful thinking.
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Jorge300