BallReviews
General Category => USBC Tournament => Topic started by: BigBaller on March 17, 2013, 01:14:39 AM
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I rolled the ball like crap, i was really tugging it at the bottom of the swing.
For me Team was my best look, i started @ 8 trying to hit 5-6 @the break point and if i didn't hit it at the bottom of the swing i had great reaction with a Blue Warlock @ 600. I never got deeper than 12 @ the arrows and trying to hit 8 @ the second range marker. If my ball was just outside the range marker i was good to go. But if i hit that range marker it was split city for me.
In team i had 6 opens, 3 splits in the first game for a sweet 162, clean 223 my second game and 3 splits for a 162 in game 3. I was on a roll in the second game when i tripped the 4 pin on a 4 bagger and made a small adjustment and lost my look. I tried to stay ahead of the transition that just wasn't there. Letting up on my speed really killed me.
Singles/Doubles- I tried to get into the BJ 2 days in a row and was unable, not really a walk in tourney...
I talked with Bill at the Motiv Booth and we talked about the balls i brought and he thought i had it all covered.
What i found out on the lanes was i didn't have a ball that had any pop on the back end that had any length. My Blue warlock was reading the pattern to early and i had 10 pin issues. Mutant cell @ 4000 had no pop on the back end and i was leaving 7 pins. Nexxus @ 2000 was the same as the Warlock, burning up before it would get to the pocket. And my Motiv Ascent Pearl would get down the lane but had no recovery. The farther right i got the less reaction i saw. I am sure it was me powering the ball. But i felt if i had a little stronger pearl in my hands i would have had a better reaction.
I Missed a total of 1 single pin spare it was a 4 pin that i lost concentration and missed it right. I throw straight at all my spares but i tried to hook it at a 4 pin once. I left more splits than i care to talk about.
If i had to do it all over again i would have bought that dam IQTP my wife was giving me crap about. And i am sure i would shoot better if i had another chance as the shot is playable if you can take some hand out of the ball.
Good luck all and hope you roll the ball better than i did. Already looking forward to next year.
Gambling was gambling. Played 3 dollar BJ @ Cal Neva for 6 hours and made a couple hundred dollars, wife hit for 1500 on a penny machine so all in all it was a good 4 days.
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Thanks for the run down.
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Thanks for the info. I'm sitting in the airport waiting to fly out. Only taking three balls with me. Hammer Arson Low Flare, Track 300T and a Roto Grip Grenade.
I never have high hopes but maybe something will work.
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Good luck Greazygeo, just relax and have fun...
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300t may be good for minors
low flare should be great for either
grenade might be a good ball to start with in team
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Pending on how you throw it I'm not certain grenade will be strong enough for team event. What I have seen on live stream so far is med type balls with some surface. We will wait and see as I think we will see more video coming out soon.
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Good luck Greazygeo, just relax and have fun...
Thanks. I am happy if I shoot over 500 and have a game over 200. See what happens shortly!
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300t may be good for minors
low flare should be great for either
grenade might be a good ball to start with in team
Thinking of starting with the Arson then maybe switching to the 300t if needed. Using the Grenade more for spares.
Pending on how you throw it I'm not certain grenade will be strong enough for team event. What I have seen on live stream so far is med type balls with some surface. We will wait and see as I think we will see more video coming out soon.
Last year I found a good line with Blue Hammer straight up 15. Might be something to think about.
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Bowled the BJ on doubles and singles shot. And your description of "something not having enough pop on the backend" with length was exactly what i saw. Im hoping to get a stronger pearl than my fireroad when i go to bowl the open in june.
thanks for the review
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Well I am in the airport again waiting to head home. It was quite an adventure to say the least. Stopped by the Track booth and talked to the guy there a bit. Ended up getting an 811 C/T drilled pin up and mass bias kicked out.
Tried the Arson Low Flare first. Worked great in practice then just not enough back end. Went to the 811 and stayed with that. Never had a great look but it was ok. Shot a 510. Pretty happy with that.
Doubles lets just say the first game was ok. Started with the Arson and looked good for practice then about 7 frames. Then it wouldnt make a strong enough move. Game 2 was a disaster / fishing expedition! Not sure what happened but the shot was gone for me and my partner. Tried everything and had 7 opens. Game three finally went to the 811 and had an ok look. Shot 464.
Singles went much better. Went to the 300T and went back outside and shot 551 with a 213 last game that was clean. Really happy with that.
Overall the single dbls pattern was very difficult. Shooting spares were much harder. We were on the pair nect to the walkway and the open championship lighted sign reflected on the right lane. That is kinda a drag.
It was fun and frustrating. I'm not a good enough bowler to hit a one board area. Maybe someday.....and I only had 11 splits compared to 22 last year! Always next year.
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Well I am in the airport again waiting to head home. It was quite an adventure to say the least. Stopped by the Track booth and talked to the guy there a bit. Ended up getting an 811 C/T drilled pin up and mass bias kicked out.
Tried the Arson Low Flare first. Worked great in practice then just not enough back end. Went to the 811 and stayed with that. Never had a great look but it was ok. Shot a 510. Pretty happy with that.
Doubles lets just say the first game was ok. Started with the Arson and looked good for practice then about 7 frames. Then it wouldnt make a strong enough move. Game 2 was a disaster / fishing expedition! Not sure what happened but the shot was gone for me and my partner. Tried everything and had 7 opens. Game three finally went to the 811 and had an ok look. Shot 464.
Singles went much better. Went to the 300T and went back outside and shot 551 with a 213 last game that was clean. Really happy with that.
Overall the single dbls pattern was very difficult. Shooting spares were much harder. We were on the pair nect to the walkway and the open championship lighted sign reflected on the right lane. That is kinda a drag.
It was fun and frustrating. I'm not a good enough bowler to hit a one board area. Maybe someday.....and I only had 11 splits compared to 22 last year! Always next year.
Sometimes it just boils down to experience. The more you get, the more you learn for following years. The main difference this year is that in previous years, I could use what I learned in team event and coordinate a game plan for minors. This year; not so much. My first instinct is to use something strong in team and play where I think I have the best look. Then in minors, play the same basic area on the lane but use a much weaker ball. But we will see when I get there which wont be until first week of May.
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I hear a lot of people saying "the ball wouldn't make the corner" or "didn't have any pop on the backend". Was it because of carrydown? Was the ball just too strong and it was burning up? Or was the ball just too weak in general? I find it hard to believe that with the amount of friction there is at the stadium, and the fresh back-ends that balls won't make the corner. Just wondering what people were thinking about the reasons why they were seeing this. Thanks.
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I hear a lot of people saying "the ball wouldn't make the corner" or "didn't have any pop on the backend". Was it because of carrydown? Was the ball just too strong and it was burning up? Or was the ball just too weak in general? I find it hard to believe that with the amount of friction there is at the stadium, and the fresh back-ends that balls won't make the corner. Just wondering what people were thinking about the reasons why they were seeing this. Thanks.
Chances are on the 41 foot team even, with the new oil that plays tighter than the norm we are used to, it may play like a 43 foot pattern. Chances are the balls are not strong enough on the backend because you are almost forced into using something with surface which makes the backend reaction pretty mild; not causing enough entry angle.
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In my BJ experience it was Equipment for me! 500rpm about 17.50 mph
#1 Clutch OOB i think 4000
Play straight stand 15 look @ 8 at arrows = too sharp on back go face
Play inside Stand 22 look @ 17 at arrows = still too sharp of back end
#2 Pursit-s OOB 4000
Play straight stand 15 look @ 8 at arrows = hooks early looses energy in back
Play inside Stand 22 look @ 17 at arrows = Wouldn't turn corner too smooth
#3 Crossroad OOB polish- Ball has alot of games so some loss of reaction couldn't use this at all
#4 Victory road solid OOB 4000 also has too many games loss of reaction this ball gave me over under. Play straight it would hook early too if playing around 8 and i would go face. try to go out and it wouldn't recover going 2-8-10.
#5 Fireroad OOB polish.
This gave me my best look. stand 22 look 17 at arrows out to bout 11-12. Ball just wouldn't make the turn early enough to help carry the corner pin. Also wouldn't give me a board or 2 right light hits were weak pin action. if i miss in it 2 it would be 4 pin.
Just picked up Ebonite champion so this might give me a better inside look for doubles/singles. I go in June so we will see.
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Just picked up Ebonite champion so this might give me a better inside look for doubles/singles. I go in June so we will see.
Definitely interested in how the Champion rolls for you. Are you going to leave that at OOB finish?
BL.
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Just picked up Ebonite champion so this might give me a better inside look for doubles/singles. I go in June so we will see.
Definitely interested in how the Champion rolls for you. Are you going to leave that at OOB finish?
BL.
Yes it will remain OOB for now. Going to roll it tomorrow night in my house league to see. Hopefully have a video of reaction soon too.
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cee_dub,
There is one common theme among all your equipment....OOB. Maybe if you changed surfaces on some of them it might have helped?!? I keep certain balls at the OOB surface, but not many. One it is easier to get back to a surface you put on the ball, rather than the factory finish. And two, some balls just work better for individuals at different surfaces. USBC rules allow you to change surfaces on a ball between games, just not during a game. You could have tried to alter a surface to see if that helped, or hurt.
TwoHand, you may be correct. But I would think some of that would be mitigated by the clean back-ends. Usually at the USBC's you want something smoother in the back to help control the pocket and the back end reaction so it is not too wild. I would think this new oil, while only minimumly different would even enhance that. I am by no means an expert, but it would seem to me that maybe these players had either too much surface and the ball was burning up or not enough and it was giving them an over/under reaction depending on where it came out of the pattern. Again JMHO.
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Sometimes it just boils down to experience. The more you get, the more you learn for following years. The main difference this year is that in previous years, I could use what I learned in team event and coordinate a game plan for minors. This year; not so much. My first instinct is to use something strong in team and play where I think I have the best look. Then in minors, play the same basic area on the lane but use a much weaker ball. But we will see when I get there which wont be until first week of May.
Yeah this is my 4th or 5 th time going. Learn alot each time. Next year I may go a day earlier and hit the BJ tourney beforehand.
Your methodology is basically what I ended up having sucess with. 811 worked well for team but too much for minors. The 300T worked best for minors, wish I would have tried it for doubles!
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I hear a lot of people saying "the ball wouldn't make the corner" or "didn't have any pop on the backend". Was it because of carrydown? Was the ball just too strong and it was burning up? Or was the ball just too weak in general? I find it hard to believe that with the amount of friction there is at the stadium, and the fresh back-ends that balls won't make the corner. Just wondering what people were thinking about the reasons why they were seeing this. Thanks.
I'm thinking carrydown. The lanes didnt really breakdown much at all. Watch the Odom telecast but watch the guy that bowled the 299 in his practice. He is killing it from deep inside. Then watch a couple frames into the game. He starts missing way right. You can see he looks confused.
In team I only made one move partway into the third game. It was a very small adjustment too.
Minors was the same type thing.
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We have been on the pattern for a few weeks now and have the ICE oil.
You really have to "roll" the ball well off your hand in order to see the proper movement on the back end.
A little fast or just not he right release and it will skate, not turn the corner.
Rolling the ball well is the key to this pattern IMO.
The shot will seem easy if you have the right ball, right surface and hit your mark.
Do any of these wrong and it will seem like the toughest shot in the world.
This shot was designed to allow multiple angles to the pocket
The pattern shape starts at around 6 board, if you can try it there and "roll" it well up the boards with minimal or zero swing, you will have a great look.
miss out at all and your done.
You can try the track area and it is playable, again, roll it with minimal swing (1-2 boards) and it will be fine.
I am LH with 385 rpm, high track.
gamechanger with 5" pin in finger, 3000 dull, good up the boards around 7-8
715t, 5.25" pin up, good up 5-6, 400 dull
Arson Low flare, 2000 dull, 5" pin in finger, up 10, swing to 8, plenty of back-end.
drilling pin down low flare which should be perfect for a earlier, predictable piece
Oil holds up well, not to many if any guys inside of 15 by end of game 3
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cee_dub,
There is one common theme among all your equipment....OOB. Maybe if you changed surfaces on some of them it might have helped?!? I keep certain balls at the OOB surface, but not many. One it is easier to get back to a surface you put on the ball, rather than the factory finish. And two, some balls just work better for individuals at different surfaces. USBC rules allow you to change surfaces on a ball between games, just not during a game. You could have tried to alter a surface to see if that helped, or hurt. "
Making sure this post doesn't get by everyone. USBC DOES NOT allow surface changes between games. In fact, at Nationals you are directed to not touch the surface once a ball is checked in. This includes when one is waiting in the seating area behind the lanes. I think that if you were caught with an abralon pad or scotch bright or polish on the lanes, the ball would be thrown out.
In most cases, one is allowed to change the surface up to the time competition actually starts, but not after that point. Keep in mind, cleaning your ball with an approved cleaner does not constitute surface change.
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djones,
Might want to work on the quote feature, lol.
The USBC rules DO allow for changes between games, but you are correct, the tournament overrides that rule with their own. There are enough chances to roll on the shot, 1-2-3, Showcase Lanes, BJI, etc., that you probably can make whatever surface adjustments you need to at that point. Thanks for catching that, I did forget that the USBC Open doesn't allow this, even though the USBC general rules do. But my point is still valid to cee_dub, he may need to change the surface of the balls a little to get one that really works well on this pattern.
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djones,
Might want to work on the quote feature, lol.
The USBC rules DO allow for changes between games, but you are correct, the tournament overrides that rule with their own. There are enough chances to roll on the shot, 1-2-3, Showcase Lanes, BJI, etc., that you probably can make whatever surface adjustments you need to at that point. Thanks for catching that, I did forget that the USBC Open doesn't allow this, even though the USBC general rules do. But my point is still valid to cee_dub, he may need to change the surface of the balls a little to get one that really works well on this pattern.
I am going to do that and try to change up surfaces and try to create some space in my equipment. Im from san fran so its about 3 hours to Reno so i plan to try the BJ a couple more times before my scheduled time to bowl the open in June 25. When i was there a few weeks ago i did see some guys in team with decent amount of hand throwing surfaced First Bloods with succes. It smoothed out the snap on the First blood a little. Also a few Iq tours, and a few Aura Paranormals. Also i agree with ROLLING the ball. Getting the ball down on the lane and allowing it to roll and not over or under read the pattern.
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I bowled the team pattern today at a house in my area that puts out the shot, not the ICE oil, just infinity, but last year the shot was as close as it could get to what we saw at Baton Rouge, the lanes in this house were brand new at that time, literally about 2 weeks old when we started practicing last year.
I shot 6 games today with my buddy, so we didnt see really any breakdown. I can tell you that if the shot is close to Reno, I had a hard time using surface, the ball started early and was to mild on the back part of the lane. I was using a Defiant Soul at 2000 drilled 50x5x40 and it was too strong and too early. I went to my War Eagle at 4000 drilled 45x4x65 and had a GREAT look. Standing 22, 13-12 at arrows to 7-9 at the down lane marker and it was money. If i hit 6 down lane it skidded and barely made the 3 pin, if I hit 10 it was solid head pin. I also threw a Nomad Solid at 4000 and was able to straighten up a bit (40x5x60) it was a bit weaker through out the lane and didnt carry as well, but was able to find the pocket easily, maybe a bit more surface on that ball would do it.
I totally agree with the "roll" the ball correctly. If my release wasnt quite right, the backend was a bit weak, then no carry.
I will be practicing more over the next few weeks on both patterns before I go mid April.
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We have been on the pattern for a few weeks now and have the ICE oil.
You really have to "roll" the ball well off your hand in order to see the proper movement on the back end.
A little fast or just not he right release and it will skate, not turn the corner.
Rolling the ball well is the key to this pattern IMO.
The shot will seem easy if you have the right ball, right surface and hit your mark.
Do any of these wrong and it will seem like the toughest shot in the world.
This shot was designed to allow multiple angles to the pocket
The pattern shape starts at around 6 board, if you can try it there and "roll" it well up the baords with minimal or zero swing, you will have a great look.
miss out at all and your done.
You can try the track area and it is playable, again, roll it with miniaml swing (1-2 boards) and it will be fine.
I am LH with 385 rpm, high track.
gamechanger with 5" pin in finger, 3000 dull, good up the boards around 7-8
715t, 5.25" pin up, good up 5-6, 400 dull
Arson Low flare, 2000 dull, 5" pin in finger, up 10, swing to 8, plenty of back-end.
drilling pin down low flare which should be perfect for a earlier, predictable piece
Oil holds up well, not to many if any guys inside of 15 by end of game 3
My specs sound similar to yours but rh. My findings seem anout the same. My Arson is drilled with a 2" pin box finish. It didnt want to finish very well after about the halfway point into the first game. I was able to use it for ten pins on team. Not for singles though.
My 300T and 811 are laid out similar to each other. The 300T is at 2000 and the 811 is still at box (4000 I think). Wish I could take another shot at the tourney patterns!
Good luck to you guys!!
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From the 2012-2013 rule book:
Rule 18 – Bowling Ball – Altering Surface
Altering the surface of a bowling ball by the use of abrasives while bowling in USBC competition is prohibited.
All bowling balls so altered must be removed from the competition. (See the USBC Equipment Specifications Manual on BOWL.com.)
NOTE: If it is shown the bowler had prior knowledge his/her actions were in violation of Rule 18, the game(s) in which the violation occurred is (are) subject to forfeiture. In addition, the bowler is subject to dismissal from the league and suspension of membership.
Competition is defined as the remainder of the current game and remaining game(s) in the
series being bowled.
The use of approved cleaning agents such as isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol and polishing
machines is permissible.
Pretty clear that one cannot alter the ball surface once competition begins. I do, however, agree that the correct surface prep is a necessity, especially in a sport compliant competition.
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Greazygeo - your low flare is drilled 2" pin-pap?
if so, that may be your problem with that ball on that pattern, it needs to be drilled fairly strong to see the full potential of the ball.
On a house pattern, it may be different
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Greazygeo - your low flare is drilled 2" pin-pap?
if so, that may be your problem with that ball on that pattern, it needs to be drilled fairly strong to see the full potential of the ball.
On a house pattern, it may be different[\quote]
Yes I wanted it to have a urethane like motion. That what I normally throw so I can get something down the lane. Wanted something stronger hitting but controllable. It was fine thru practice and three or four frames. Then it just didnt quite get there.
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Djones, agree with you on the use of abrasives during USBC competition, but you notice it says 'abrasives'. If I recall correctly, some polishes are approved during USBC competition and the use of the LustreKing polisher. So you can add more skid to your ball during competition if the lanes are drying out but if you brought the wrong, too weak ball or don't have enough revs, then you are out of luck.
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djones,
I was told that rule was amended to basically you couldn't change surface within a game, but could after a game is completed. I guess I got bad information. Thanks.
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I hear a lot of people saying "the ball wouldn't make the corner" or "didn't have any pop on the backend". Was it because of carrydown? Was the ball just too strong and it was burning up? Or was the ball just too weak in general? I find it hard to believe that with the amount of friction there is at the stadium, and the fresh back-ends that balls won't make the corner. Just wondering what people were thinking about the reasons why they were seeing this. Thanks.
Chances are on the 41 foot team even, with the new oil that plays tighter than the norm we are used to, it may play like a 43 foot pattern. Chances are the balls are not strong enough on the backend because you are almost forced into using something with surface which makes the backend reaction pretty mild; not causing enough entry angle.
TWOHAND I think your statement is fairly accurate. I already bowled and to me the fronts play a little slicker(because of ICE?) than they have in past years. Because of that you may or may not catch the backend in time to get a proper reaction. More speed dominate guys like myself will probably notice this more and I could see up the back guys having issues catching the backend too. I don't think carrydown was a big factor because the lanes transition fairly slow compared to previous Nationals. I also saw no significant carrydown issues when bowling the BJ on the fresh either.
To me team played pretty close to how it did last time in Reno. Just with fewer and smaller moves required. If you're more speed dominate or more up the back you may need slightly more ball this time.
In minors I thought you could play them similar to Baton Rouge but the overall reaction was smoother/more blended, a little more push and not as much backend. I thought in BR the backends were flying and at times the shot got over/under there.
This year both shots were definitely multiple angles shots and can be attacked a few different ways. I do think it's more important this year than in previous years to play every event as a team and have a plan. I'd also recommend having a backup plan for minors in case the people not from your group you cross with do their own thing.
For reference I'm usually 17-17.5mph 275-300rpm. On sport shots I like to throw a little harder because I seem to be more accurate/comfortable doing that. So my guess is I was probably more 18-18.5 mph in Reno. I was able to throw a lane shined Marvel the entire time. I had a decent reaction with it. If I had a similar surfaced ball drilled to have a little more pop on the back I think I could've had a really good look. Other people were throwing more medium to medium-heavy balls, nothing with an insane amount of surface though. I/we shot 545-2704 team, 577-1172 doubles, 605 singles. So 1727 AE and I gave away 101 pins with a 140 start in team and a 159 last game in doubles that I attribute to two classified guys playing a different part of the lane and pushing oil out to our breakpoint. We had to move inside of them after that. So the other 7 games were OK(204 avg.) but no huge games, fairly consistent between 190-215. Overall I was happy since I was only 10 days removed from getting a cast off my sliding foot from having a broken ankle.