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Author Topic: Reno politician says Reno deal looking good, Orlando 'dead' ... USBC says its talking to bot  (Read 4804 times)

riggs

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This is for USBC tourneys 2016 and beyond


 

 


The No. 1 source for bowling news, analysis and opinion is my blog, The 11th Frame, which is here:
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storm making it rain

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Lets' face it guy/gals only about 3% of the total bowlers go to Nationals looking to make money.  I agree with Jaydee that Reno wouldn't be horrible if they spent some money to make it a nicer or even family oriented city.  Most people use this as a vacation and bowling just happens to be involved in it.  Me personally I go to win money be it at brackets, tournament winnings, side events.  Our companion team not so much, they go as a trip with their wives...

 

I personally like going to different cities that you probably wouldn't trvale to on a vacation ie: Billings, Knoxville, Baton Rouge, etc.  I don't think the airfare cost is the biggest factor in deciding to attend the event.  It's gotta be location location location.  How many times can you go to Reno when the city stays exactly the same, granted they moved the bus terminal (wooooohoooo). What other things have changed if any???  I would go to Reno every year if there was any other excitement other than gambling.  (and i also live in the northeast)

 

 



Jorge300

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Jaydee,

     I think it is you who is missing the point. The deal Reno can give the USBC keeps the tournament profitable even if it drops under 10,000 teams.....now how far under that number I do not know. So it will offset the loss of some of the teams that decide not to go. I go for the chance that one of these years, myself, my double partner and my team will actually bowl to our full potential giving us a chance to win an Eagle. Making money in brackets is nice, winning money in side events is nice, but it is the Eagle that draws me back, and I will continue to go to try and achieve that. I too liked traveling to different cities, I even didn't mind going to Billings. But I also understand what the USBC is facing and Reno may be the answer for the long term future of the tournament.

 

TwoHand - Please don't take this personally...but I am so sick and tired of hearing people complain, b*tch, and whine about the tournament not coming to the East. It isn't the USBC's fault that no city bids for it. It isn't the USBC's fault that there are no open convention centers meeting the size requirements they need willing to shed yearly paying customers to bring in this tournament. If you really want this tournament in the East, work with your (or a neighboring large city) city council, your convention center board, your local businesses/casinos (if there are any) to put together a package for the tournament. If you put together a competitive bid then the tournament will come to the East. No one seems to understand that the larger convention centers have yearly shows/events that come back year after year. And they won't take kindly to being told that they will not be allowed back next year due to a bowling tournament. They will just find a convention center in a nearby town and hold their event their.....from that year on, costing the hosting center money. Why would they throw away guaranteed revenue year after year to take a chance on how much they may make from the USBC tournament for one year? Especially in these tough economic times. Sorry don't mean to lay this all on you, but it is the same thing year after year and no one is lifting one finger to do anything about it except complain on the internet.


Jorge300

 
Edited by Jorge300 on 11/3/2011 at 3:50 PM
Jorge300

jaydee

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8 out of 10 years in the 90's, the tournament operated with less than 10,000 teams, and to my knowledge, they were all at convo centers with constructed lanes.  Before the 90's, they hit 10k teams once.  This isn't about if it's profitable, it's about how profitable.  I don't think the men's tourney is nearly as "on the brink" as they want us to believe in order to justify having in Reno all the time.  I know costs rise over time, but I doubt that the USBC's "rights fee" has stayed the same over time and I'm pretty sure entry fees have gone up a fair amount as well.  I'm just not buying the arguement that "if it's not in Reno, we can't make money".  If that is truly the case, it has more to do with mismanagement then anything else.  This is about bigger profits for having it Reno, at the expense of being better for the game and appealing to a broader audience.  And don't tell me no one else bids, we had El Paso, Syracuse, Vegas, San Antonio all going after 2015.

 

And my bigger point was that Reno somehow thinks that building a bowling HOF and 10 more lanes is more important to the average bowler than improving the city around it.  Maybe they came up with that aftering polling people going after Eagles, but that is not the majority of Nats bowlers.

jaydee

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Jorge300 wrote on 11/7/2011 11:00 AM:
Jaydee,


     Do you think the costs now are the same as the 90's? Do you think the costs now are the same as before the 90's??? To quote ESPN, "C'mon Man". You refuse to see the real facts beause of something, probably a hatred for Reno. I am not a fan of going to Reno over and over, but I do understand why it may become that.


 


It's about the USBC as a whole. Expenses don't decrease over time, usually. And with a declining membership base, and the refusal of the delagates to raise fees, the money has to come from somewhere. That somewhere is the USBC Open. Reno can offer a deal that helps the USBC, and it is very hard for any other city to compete with that. If you owned a business, would you throw away an amazing offer that can keep your business in the black for years to come just because it might not be liked by a minority of your customers? If so, remind me never to invest in one of your businesses.


 


And as far as bidding, look at the cities you listed......only one is in the East. And Syracuse wasn't a vibrant city when we went there in 1997 (I think it was), and it has only gone downhill since then. If you think Reno is bad, then you can't be pulling for Syracuse to get it. It just shows my point even more, that big cities and convention centers won't lose yearly business for our tournament. Mr. Thomas explained very well also.


 


And to your last point, do you know how much it would cost to "improve" Reno as a city? Where do you expect them to get that kind of money? They are renovating the Stadium to try and improve on it for the bowlers. Adding a HOF and 10 lanes isn't exactly a huge deal for me, or maybe for anyone. But if it comes with other added improvements, that were mentioned in earlier articles on this, then it is fine with me. You don't like Reno, that is clear in your posts. Well if you want to bowl in the USBC Open you had better be prepared to live with Reno or stop coming. And if the tourney is in Reno for a majority of the time in the next 20 years, then your dollars won't be missed. 
 


Jorge300


Of course costs aren't the same as the 90's.  I already said that rights fees, bowler fees have increased over time to accomodate that.  And brackets, USBC keeps 12.5% of all bracket money, which hasn't always existed and there's more and more side pots that USBC also keeps a slice of.  Face it, USBC has INCREASED there streams of revenue over the years, they are making MORE money per bowler on average than in the past.  I'm not sure how you can reasonably argue against that.  USBC doesn't pay city rent on public facilities they borrow, cities pay them money to have the tournament there. 

 

 

If you owned a business, would you throw away an amazing offer that can keep your business in the black for years to come just because it might not be liked by a minority of your customers?

 

You're assuming that Reno is the only city that the USBC can be profitable.  Disagree.  You are assuming that the majority of people are happy going to Reno and there's only a minority who "might not like" going back to Reno 2 out of 3 years.  Strongly disagree.

 

 

"of the cities you listed... only one city is in the East"

 

What is that suppose to mean?  I never said the tournament had to be in the East.  And while Syracuse may not be "vibrant", it's got more going for it than Reno.  Top 10 Div I NCAA basketball in Feb-March, March Madness Regionals almost every year,  AHL Hockey Feb thru April, a good AAA stadium to watch baseball April thru July, Buffalo and Niagara Falls is less than 3 hours away, Lake Placid less than 4 hours away, NYC, Philly about 4 hours, Boston about a 5 hour drive, Dinosaur BBQ, Adirondack Mtn's, skiing, Finger Lakes, Indian Reservation Casino's nearby, etc.  But whether or not Syracuse is a "vibrant city" isn't even the issue.  If Syracuse won a bid for Nationals 2 out of every 3 years, I'd be just as unhappy, because this isn't about Reno, whether I like it or dislike it.  It's about moving the tournament around, like they always have until now. 

 

 

It just shows my point even more, that big cities and convention centers won't lose yearly business for our tournament. Mr. Thomas explained very well also.

 

No one is arguing against you that big cities aren't going to bid for Nationals, that's obvious.  Why do you keep bringing this up like you're winning a point? 

 

 

And to your last point, do you know how much it would cost to "improve" Reno as a city? Where do you expect them to get that kind of money?

 

City is already raising money $2 per hotel room per night for the betterment of the USBC tournament.  This is well documented.  They've raised $500k since July, and that's "offpeak" over just a few months, this tax is ongoing.  And I already laid out suggestions for bettering the city with that money instead of improving the "bowling experience" of the city.  They've got that covered, give us something other than casino's and bowling. 

milorafferty

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Although I live in Northern California and Reno is very convenient to me for the tournament, I prefer a variety of different locations, not just Reno year after year. 
 
That being said, I read a lot of comments here and other forums about Reno. Most of the crap that is written is not justified. If you travel to Reno to bowl and just hang around the downtown area, then that is your loss. You (jaydee) mentioned places/events that are "close" to Syracuse, but that doesn't even compare to the options a comparable distance from Reno. I would guess that 99% of the tournament bowlers coming to Reno never venture outside the Casinos and explore. 
 
Again, I'm excited the tournament is in Baton Rouge this year, but if you don't take the time or interest to find out anything about the area, then Baton Rouge will be boring for you as well.
 
jaydee wrote on 11/7/2011 1:25 PM:
 



Jorge300 wrote on 11/7/2011 11:00 AM:
Jaydee,


     Do you think the costs now are the same as the 90's? Do you think the costs now are the same as before the 90's??? To quote ESPN, "C'mon Man". You refuse to see the real facts beause of something, probably a hatred for Reno. I am not a fan of going to Reno over and over, but I do understand why it may become that.


 


It's about the USBC as a whole. Expenses don't decrease over time, usually. And with a declining membership base, and the refusal of the delagates to raise fees, the money has to come from somewhere. That somewhere is the USBC Open. Reno can offer a deal that helps the USBC, and it is very hard for any other city to compete with that. If you owned a business, would you throw away an amazing offer that can keep your business in the black for years to come just because it might not be liked by a minority of your customers? If so, remind me never to invest in one of your businesses.


 


And as far as bidding, look at the cities you listed......only one is in the East. And Syracuse wasn't a vibrant city when we went there in 1997 (I think it was), and it has only gone downhill since then. If you think Reno is bad, then you can't be pulling for Syracuse to get it. It just shows my point even more, that big cities and convention centers won't lose yearly business for our tournament. Mr. Thomas explained very well also.


 


And to your last point, do you know how much it would cost to "improve" Reno as a city? Where do you expect them to get that kind of money? They are renovating the Stadium to try and improve on it for the bowlers. Adding a HOF and 10 lanes isn't exactly a huge deal for me, or maybe for anyone. But if it comes with other added improvements, that were mentioned in earlier articles on this, then it is fine with me. You don't like Reno, that is clear in your posts. Well if you want to bowl in the USBC Open you had better be prepared to live with Reno or stop coming. And if the tourney is in Reno for a majority of the time in the next 20 years, then your dollars won't be missed. 
 


Jorge300


Of course costs aren't the same as the 90's.  I already said that rights fees, bowler fees have increased over time to accomodate that.  And brackets, USBC keeps 12.5% of all bracket money, which hasn't always existed and there's more and more side pots that USBC also keeps a slice of.  Face it, USBC has INCREASED there streams of revenue over the years, they are making MORE money per bowler on average than in the past.  I'm not sure how you can reasonably argue against that.  USBC doesn't pay city rent on public facilities they borrow, cities pay them money to have the tournament there. 

 

 

If you owned a business, would you throw away an amazing offer that can keep your business in the black for years to come just because it might not be liked by a minority of your customers?

 

You're assuming that Reno is the only city that the USBC can be profitable.  Disagree.  You are assuming that the majority of people are happy going to Reno and there's only a minority who "might not like" going back to Reno 2 out of 3 years.  Strongly disagree.

 

 

"of the cities you listed... only one city is in the East"

 

What is that suppose to mean?  I never said the tournament had to be in the East.  And while Syracuse may not be "vibrant", it's got more going for it than Reno.  Top 10 Div I NCAA basketball in Feb-March, March Madness Regionals almost every year,  AHL Hockey Feb thru April, a good AAA stadium to watch baseball April thru July, Buffalo and Niagara Falls is less than 3 hours away, Lake Placid less than 4 hours away, NYC, Philly about 4 hours, Boston about a 5 hour drive, Dinosaur BBQ, Adirondack Mtn's, skiing, Finger Lakes, Indian Reservation Casino's nearby, etc.  But whether or not Syracuse is a "vibrant city" isn't even the issue.  If Syracuse won a bid for Nationals 2 out of every 3 years, I'd be just as unhappy, because this isn't about Reno, whether I like it or dislike it.  It's about moving the tournament around, like they always have until now. 

 

 

It just shows my point even more, that big cities and convention centers won't lose yearly business for our tournament. Mr. Thomas explained very well also.

 

No one is arguing against you that big cities aren't going to bid for Nationals, that's obvious.  Why do you keep bringing this up like you're winning a point? 

 

 

And to your last point, do you know how much it would cost to "improve" Reno as a city? Where do you expect them to get that kind of money?

 

City is already raising money $2 per hotel room per night for the betterment of the USBC tournament.  This is well documented.  They've raised $500k since July, and that's "offpeak" over just a few months, this tax is ongoing.  And I already laid out suggestions for bettering the city with that money instead of improving the "bowling experience" of the city.  They've got that covered, give us something other than casino's and bowling. 
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DrBob806

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I'm not for Orlando at all. Tourist trap mecca of the USA.