Author Topic: Arsenal question for you Visionary experts (Read 1656 times)

Gene J Kanak · « **on:** April 09, 2010, 12:04:36 AM »

Ladies and gentlemen,

I am happy to report that my quest to create a Visionary arsenal for next year's THS season is going well. I have a Centaur AMB Solid, Ogre Pearl (purple) and G3 Gryphon on the way. Based on the little bit I've seen/heard/read, here's how I see them shaping up:

Medium-heavy to heavy (not soup) - AMB Solid
Standard mediums w/clean backends - Ogre pearl
Skid/snap on fresh or drying heads with light carrydown: G3

Now, I also have been approached about possibly picking up a Granite Gargoyle, Violet Gargoyle, Green Gargoyle and Charcoal Ex. My question is which of these, if any, do I really need? Off the top of my head, I'm thinking the Greenie might be good for when they really start to dry out as I know it's good for length. The Violet intrigues me as a benchmark ball as I like having a mild solid option. I don't really think I need the Granite, but I've owned three of them, and they're just great balls, so the possibility of picking that up interests me as well. Lastly, I've never thrown a Charcoal Ex., and although I'd love to try one, I'm just not sure I'd truly need it with the AMB already in the bag.

So, wise ones, this is why I come to you. I would like to know whether or not you agree with my assessment of the three I already have coming as well as which of the other four might be wise for me to bag. Thanks in advance for your input!
--------------------
Bowling bad since 1979 with no end in sight

http://members.bowl.com/SearchUSBC/ViewMember.aspx?prefix=519&suffix=9130

--------------------
Bowling bad since 1979 with no end in sight

http://members.bowl.com/SearchUSBC/ViewMember.aspx?prefix=519&suffix=9130

scotts33 · « **Reply #1 on:** April 09, 2010, 08:21:06 AM »

As, I said before Gene I like your main 3.

Medium-heavy to heavy (not soup) - AMB Solid
Standard mediums w/clean backends - Ogre pearl
Skid/snap on fresh or drying heads with light carrydown: G3

As far as the Granite, if you want a particle ball then I'd go with the Ogre Particle same cover as the Granite and reasonable cost.

Ogre Pearl will handle a small bit of carry down. Definitely an arcing pearl medium benchmark for me.

Gladiator Solid is much like the Char. Ex. Pretty smooth and for me could be under the AMB Solid....a bit depending on surface and layouts.

With your 2 handed technique what's your ball speed Gene?
--------------------
Scott

TWOHAND834 · « **Reply #2 on:** April 09, 2010, 08:26:05 AM »

IMO...there isnt enough of a gap between the G3 and the Ogre Pearl to warrant needing both. G3 is older and Ogres are newer, so that being said, the overall hook differences between them is small enough that you can get away with only using one. Here is what I would do:

AMB Solid - Heavier
G3 or Ogre Pearl - Skid/Snap Mediums
Violet Gargoyle (OOB finish)- Benchmark
Green Gargoyle (Take cover up to 2000 or 4000 and polished) - Lighter Conditions

If you only go with 4 balls, that is what I would recommend. Hope this helps and if you have any more questions, let me know. Best of luck, Gene.
--------------------

If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!

scotts33 · « **Reply #3 on:** April 09, 2010, 08:36:22 AM »

Ogre Pearl and G-3 for me don't react at all alike. For me as a one hander the OP arcs more than the G-3. Similar drills both 1500 polished. G-3 flares more gets more length and more backend. Even though the G-3 is older the cover to me is as strong as the OP. It's my belief that the 1500 polished pearls from old to new are pretty much the same strength cover wise. Now core wise yes difference. Solid covers yes much different.

As you guys (Gene and Steve) are 2 handers I wonder if we (mostly one handers) can even comment as to your rev rates and speeds? Maybe not even comparable when I am 17 in the heads and 325 on my best day??? So maybe Steve can give you better info. than most of us one handers?
--------------------
Scott

Gene J Kanak · « **Reply #4 on:** April 09, 2010, 08:44:28 AM »

I appreciate any and all advice be it from one-handers or two-handers. As an FYI, now that the two-handed project has ended - at least from an online standpoint - I will be doing some one-handed bowling as well. My goal is to get to the point where I can use the two styles interchangeably to tackle whatever conditions I'm facing. One-handed, I will be around 17.5-18 mph at the pins with a rev rate around 300-325. Two-handed, My speed is around 18-18.5 at the pins with a rev rate around 430-450. As for the debate about the G3, I probably wouldn't have bagged both, but a very kind user has offered to give me the G3 for nothing if I'm willing to pick it up (he's local). Since it's a ball I've always wanted to try, I figured there was no harm in tossing it in. If nothing else, I was thinking coverstock prep could allow me to give it and the Ogre Pearl different looks.
--------------------
Bowling bad since 1979 with no end in sight

http://members.bowl.com/SearchUSBC/ViewMember.aspx?prefix=519&suffix=9130

TWOHAND834 · « **Reply #5 on:** April 09, 2010, 09:03:35 AM »

quote:
I appreciate any and all advice be it from one-handers or two-handers. As an FYI, now that the two-handed project has ended - at least from an online standpoint - I will be doing some one-handed bowling as well. My goal is to get to the point where I can use the two styles interchangeably to tackle whatever conditions I'm facing. One-handed, I will be around 17.5-18 mph at the pins with a rev rate around 300-325. Two-handed, My speed is around 18-18.5 at the pins with a rev rate around 430-450. As for the debate about the G3, I probably wouldn't have bagged both, but a very kind user has offered to give me the G3 for nothing if I'm willing to pick it up (he's local). Since it's a ball I've always wanted to try, I figured there was no harm in tossing it in. If nothing else, I was thinking coverstock prep could allow me to give it and the Ogre Pearl different looks.
--------------------
Bowling bad since 1979 with no end in sight

http://members.bowl.com/SearchUSBC/ViewMember.aspx?prefix=519&suffix=9130

Getting something for nothing is always good. If what you are saying is true, then go with the 3 you have in mine and just add the Greenie as your fourth and be done. If you can, try and make sure to do a length layout in the G3, rolly layout in the Ogre, and length layout in the Greenie. Even though all 3 are pearls, there should be enough gap betweem them to cover most conditions.
--------------------

If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!

Gene J Kanak · « **Reply #6 on:** April 09, 2010, 09:06:34 AM »

I like your thinking on the layouts and prep of these. What are your thoughts as to the possible value of adding a violet Gargoyle to that mix? Even though we're talking THS, I'm slightly uncomfortable with the thought of only having one solid ball in the mix. Thoughts?
--------------------
Bowling bad since 1979 with no end in sight

http://members.bowl.com/SearchUSBC/ViewMember.aspx?prefix=519&suffix=9130

TWOHAND834 · « **Reply #7 on:** April 09, 2010, 09:32:54 AM »

quote:
I like your thinking on the layouts and prep of these. What are your thoughts as to the possible value of adding a violet Gargoyle to that mix? Even though we're talking THS, I'm slightly uncomfortable with the thought of only having one solid ball in the mix. Thoughts?
--------------------
Bowling bad since 1979 with no end in sight

http://members.bowl.com/SearchUSBC/ViewMember.aspx?prefix=519&suffix=9130

Gene,

I kind of thought the same thing originally which is why I suggested only going with either the G3 or Ogre. Was under the assumption you were narrowing down to 4 balls. I think you would like the Violet with a 4 inch pin to PAP and have the Greenie at 5 1/2 pin to PAP. Let me ask you this. Are you narrowing it to 4 or are you open to 5? That is the main question to answer which will make it easier to help you out.
--------------------

If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!

Gene J Kanak · « **Reply #8 on:** April 09, 2010, 09:39:26 AM »

I'd prefer to keep things small, but lord knows I have a hard time turning down bowling balls, so it's very possible I'd go bigger.
--------------------
Bowling bad since 1979 with no end in sight

http://members.bowl.com/SearchUSBC/ViewMember.aspx?prefix=519&suffix=9130

TWOHAND834 · « **Reply #9 on:** April 09, 2010, 11:31:22 AM »

Ok. Here is what I would suggest then:

AMB - Box finish and pin 5 inches from PAP (ball already flares alot so cant drill it strong).

G3 - Box finish and pin 5 inches from PAP as well.

Ogre Pearl - take surface to 2000 abralon, pin at 4.5 from PAP.

Violet - Box surface and label drilling (pin next to ring, cg center grip).

Greenie - Surface at 4000 with polish and pin at 5.5 from PAP.

This is a start of course and then tweak the surfaces if needed/wanted. I should have asked this before, but what is your axis point? I assume that you track on the high side being that you will throw two handed? What are your thoughts?
--------------------

If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!

Gene J Kanak · « **Reply #10 on:** April 09, 2010, 11:42:38 AM »

I can certainly see the logic in that setup, so there's a decent chance I'll go with something like that. However, after looking at the numbers on each ball, I'm also thinking maybe I can get away without the Violet Gargoyle. The Ogre Pearl has a pretty low diff (.029), and it comes at 1500 + polish. I'm thinking if I knock the surface down to 4000 or 2000, I may be able to get it early and smooth enough to serve as a very solid benchmark piece, thus eliminating the need for the Violet. At the same time, that would also create more separation between the Ogre and G3, which I will keep polished for length and angle. From there, the only thing I'd need is the greenie as described. I think that may work out well.
--------------------
Bowling bad since 1979 with no end in sight

http://members.bowl.com/SearchUSBC/ViewMember.aspx?prefix=519&suffix=9130

gsback · « **Reply #11 on:** April 09, 2010, 01:26:33 PM »

Gene,

Based on your numbers and speed playing one handed, I think part of your dilemma will be where you play, as in house.

I've yet to throw a AMB Solid, but have heard plenty to know that head oil is a must for the ball.

And with the rest of the balls, I think you are going to be very surprised at the overall strength of the Ogre Pearl as it is. My G3 is taken down if I remember correctly and both it and the Ogre Pearl are drilled almost the same. With the cover change, the G3 rolls earlier...much earlier.

My point is you might fing an Ogre Pearl in the stock condition to be what covers the bulk of your shots, depending on your style.
--------------------
BR.com.....going down the toilet one nugget at a time!!

g thing is back....with a vengeance!!

www.visionarybowling.com - Accept no substitute for the very best there is!!

six pack · « **Reply #12 on:** April 09, 2010, 02:33:17 PM »

I bet once you roll the Blurple you'll be considering an all Ogre arsenal. I agree with Scott,the Blurple has more of an arc roll to it.it reminds me of a polished solid.
--------------------
The harder I try the harder they fall

Gene J Kanak · « **Reply #13 on:** April 09, 2010, 03:00:29 PM »

Well, one of the luxuries of being a two-hander is that I can demo stuff right away as long as I can get my fingers in it. As such, I'll toss them all and see how they're shaking out as currently drilled/prepped. From there, I can make decisions about what changes will make the most sense. It should be fun.
--------------------
Bowling bad since 1979 with no end in sight

http://members.bowl.com/SearchUSBC/ViewMember.aspx?prefix=519&suffix=9130

lenstanles703 · « **Reply #14 on:** April 09, 2010, 03:52:32 PM »

Yes don''t be afraid of the entire Ogre line. If you get a chance try the Urethane Ogre. Enjoy the Visionary equipment.
--------------------
Len

Edited on 4/9/2010 3:52 PM

Author Topic: Arsenal question for you Visionary experts (Read 1656 times)

Gene J Kanak

Arsenal question for you Visionary experts

scotts33

Re: Arsenal question for you Visionary experts

TWOHAND834

Re: Arsenal question for you Visionary experts

scotts33

Re: Arsenal question for you Visionary experts

Gene J Kanak

Re: Arsenal question for you Visionary experts

TWOHAND834

Re: Arsenal question for you Visionary experts

Gene J Kanak

Re: Arsenal question for you Visionary experts

TWOHAND834

Re: Arsenal question for you Visionary experts

Gene J Kanak

Re: Arsenal question for you Visionary experts

TWOHAND834

Re: Arsenal question for you Visionary experts

Gene J Kanak

Re: Arsenal question for you Visionary experts

gsback

Re: Arsenal question for you Visionary experts

six pack

Re: Arsenal question for you Visionary experts

Gene J Kanak

Re: Arsenal question for you Visionary experts

lenstanles703

Re: Arsenal question for you Visionary experts