Author Topic: B/G Centaur Different Layouts (Read 2092 times)

scotts33 · « **on:** January 17, 2008, 01:46:20 PM »

Question. I have my B/G laid out this way. http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/scotts33/?action=view¤t=VisionaryCentaur.jpg

Anybody think if I get another one and lay it out label leverage 105 deg. I'll see much difference in ball reaction same coverstock surface? Or to much the same?

On edit" From Visionary's website....." This ball is a very low flaring ball so caution has to be taken when drilling. If the ball rolls over the holes, it won't flare away from the holes after a rotations like most balls. With the controlled reaction that is designed into this ball, good and safe results can be obtained with a standard label-leverage drilling.
(1:30 layout or 4 x 6, etc. - pin to the right of fingers an inch or so and MB to the left of thumb)

Warning! -- When drilling this ball, because the Top and Side Caps have approximately the same strength, Drilling out a large portion of the top cap and not much of the side cap can cause the side cap to overpower the remainder of the top cap. The result is similar to drilling a ball with the flip cap down by your thumb and may result in a different bowtie flare position or possible "back flare"- and rolling over the holes. To help High Track players avoid this, be sure not to kick the Mass Bias too far to the right (opposite for lefties). Keeping the MB at or within 1" to the left of the thumb and keeping the finger holes away from the flip pin will remove some of the side cap strength and retain the top cap. This will result in more normal flare patterns."

--------------------
Scott

Edited on 1/17/2008 10:48 PM

charlest · « **Reply #1 on:** January 17, 2008, 11:13:41 PM »

1. always try to keep the MB near the thumb hole.

That drill you have must have the MB maker past the VAL.
What type of reaction do you get on what type of oil patetrn?

2. 105 degrees is almost radically different from your 5- 5.5" pin plus 45 degree MB posiiton. It boggles my mind, but my drillings (I have 2, not very different, but when I did the 2nd, it was for experimental purposes) have a stronger reaction, with the polished one handling MUCH less oil than you high and long pin.

My idea, for this ball, if you have only one, is to keep the pin in the range of 3 - 5" pin to PAP, 2-3" pin above the midline, BUT keep the MB around, with 3/4" of the thumb hole.

3. Because your drillings have radically different pin position PLUS radically different MB angles, I think you'll have very different ball reactions, without seeing the further differences of the capability of this ball's range by means of changing the surface. What I mean is you'll see more difference with the same drill by change the surface than you will changing the drill without changing the surface. The ball has high RG and VERY low DIff; so drilling make MUCH less difference than do surface changes.

(I hope I'm making some sense, as it's veyr late and I'm very tired.)
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
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scotts33 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 18, 2008, 05:34:21 AM »

Jeff,

I should have explained drilling better. CG is off-line mismarked and black locator pin is 1" right of thumb hole and down about 1/2" so it's not near VAL and I have an 1/2" X hole 1" down from my PAP and 1/2" past my VAL.

Reaction...I get good length and nice arc off the spot. I am wondering if I get another B/G and lay it out per Visionary preferred layout 1:30 label leverage or about a 105 deg. with pin next to ring or slightly above if I'll get the same or near same reaction if both balls were at same coverstock surface to compare apples to apples???

What do you guys think?

--------------------
Scott

Krumpy300 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 18, 2008, 05:49:37 AM »

I just dropped mine off at the shop yesterday to be refitted. It's a label drill. My driller was practicing with a Radical and a Buzz when I walked in. He's got easily 19mph speed with a lot of hand. Corey's ball actually fit him so I asked him to throw a few shots to see what the BGC would do. After going high with the Radical, lanes were moving pretty good, I told him to go at least 5 right. He's not a big Visionary guy and he asks me if the BCG is plastic. I laugh and say no, but you still need to move right.

Ball coasts through the heads and midlane with a nice controlled move but still throws pins around. He grabs it again, moves two more right and throws ten in the pit. Looks at me and says, " I really have to get one of these".

I am normally not a huge fan of label drills but I will post my findings when I get the ball back next week.

charlest · « **Reply #4 on:** January 18, 2008, 05:14:49 PM »

Scott,

I hear what you're saying.

Jason has already warned us to keep the MB somewhere near the thumb hole. That makes me think that the MB is of greater influence than the RG differential. Its number (the MB strength) may be siginificant.

I'm still of the belief, regarding drillings for this ball, that there are only 3 of true significance: leverage, pin on axis and pin in track.

Surface makes the biggest difference.

A high rev player like TwoHands can get a flippy reaction on short heavy oil, but the rest of us will find surface to be the most significant factor.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
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charlest · « **Reply #5 on:** January 18, 2008, 05:16:43 PM »

Krumpy/Ken,

I hope to see you use it on Sunday, playing 15 out to 8!! That's where I'll be starting with a BGC. OK, you'll be doing 18 out to 10.

--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
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kalannar · « **Reply #6 on:** January 18, 2008, 05:19:35 PM »

Charlest,

I just picked one up that was drilled label. It looks to be stock surface. It is fairly strong but definitely weaker than my pearl. How does yours act polished up? I am also using mine for a spare ball and really ed one last night and missed a 10 pin by about an inch. Need it to be little weaker. Sorry scott for the hijack. It does just arc all the way there with this layout and stock surface.

Mike
--------------------
That which does not kill us strengthens us.

So do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

Member of the F.O.S.

***Cherry Pearl C/2***
***B/G Centaur***

Juggernaut · « **Reply #7 on:** January 18, 2008, 05:45:47 PM »

I have one ( replacing the one I stupidly got rid of. DUH) that is drilled with the pin above the ring finger and the mb marker was drilled out ( but just barely) to the leftside of the thumbhole. This drill makes the ball about a 4 X 6 (4 being pin to pap and 6 being mb to pap)

When I got it drilled, I put a LIGHT polish over the factory surface and the ball was good on burnt heads, but if I missed any at all, it just didn't want to read the lane condition at all and would miss the breakpoint.

I lightly scuffed the surface by hand ( no spinner ) with a green scotchbrite and it really made a difference. Ball still scoots through the heads really well, but now it will read the lane even with a small miss and has the same strong roll/hook pattern that my old one did.

I have seen/used 3 of these and I will have to agree that, to me, the surface prep is THE major adjustment tool for this ball. You may slightly enhance the balls characteristics with drillings, but I believe surface alterations are the way to get LARGE reaction changes.

As with the others, when I talked with Jason ( e-mail actually ), he recommended to keep the main pin within an inch or so of the fingers and the mb pin close to the thumb.

P.S. I LOVE this ball! Gets me out of jams other balls get me into LOTS of times. And the color really gets peoples attention.
--------------------
I'm really tired of the whining, so, JUST SHUT UP AND BOWL!

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charlest · « **Reply #8 on:** January 18, 2008, 07:41:14 PM »

quote:
Charlest,

I just picked one up that was drilled label. It looks to be stock surface. It is fairly strong but definitely weaker than my pearl. How does yours act polished up? I am also using mine for a spare ball and really ed one last night and missed a 10 pin by about an inch. Need it to be little weaker. Sorry scott for the hijack. It does just arc all the way there with this layout and stock surface.

Mike
--------------------
***B/G Centaur***

Mike,

My polished BG Centaur is drilled very close to my 2000 grit matte one, but it's 600 grit plus STorm's Xtra SHine with a nice gloss. It just needs even more dry than the other one, and handles drier lanes better. It still arcs. I can't make either of them flip. (FYI TWOHANDS (Steven) has 400+ revs and he says he can make his flip.)
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
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scotts33 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 19, 2008, 07:54:55 PM »

quote:
I'm still of the belief, regarding drillings for this ball, that there are only 3 of true significance: leverage, pin on axis and pin in track.

So, what are you saying Jeff? That if I drill another B/G and put a 1:30 label leverage layout on it it will be close to what I have if the surfaces are the same?

--------------------
Scott

TWOHAND834 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 19, 2008, 09:08:13 PM »

I will chime in here just to confirm what charlest said in regards to my BGC. Mine is drilled pin above the bridge with the MB locator just to the left of the thumb hole and cg center of grip. When I have it more at box finish, it is super smooth and doesnt do much of anything. I believe that I have the ball at 2000 abralon with Ebonite Factory Finish on top. Once the track starts to burn up, I can get this ball to bounce off the wall. It is not really an uncontrollable flip. But, it does make a pretty defined move almost similar to my Violet Gargoyle on a fresher condition. This makes sense being that Jason recently made a post on another topic saying that the cover on the BGC was a derivitive of the Violet. In other words, you could take 2 BGCs with the same drilling and just with cover prep, could obtain 2 completely different looks on the lane.
--------------------
Steven Vance
Former Pro Shop Operator

If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!

Krumpy300 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 21, 2008, 05:50:45 AM »

Jeff's looked great on Sunday!! Nice fall back shot and the BGC still had good pop at the pins.

I should get mine tonight, I will post my findings; looking forward to seeing what it can do.

scotts33 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 21, 2008, 05:53:02 AM »

I just wanna know if the two different layouts will provide different ball motion and nobody has answeed that question yet. Yes, I know surface is the big determinator but will there be enough difference to differentiate?
--------------------
Scott

Krumpy300 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 21, 2008, 06:25:57 AM »

Sorry Scott, didn't mean to hijack the thread.

From what Jeff told me Sunday, he believes the MB placement and the surface are the biggest factors. And from what I read, if you keep the MB in the recommended range around the thumbhole, I don't think you will see much difference in reaction. I think Visionary marked the MB just so you don't do something wacky with the drill and disrupt the placement of the caps. I think the surface dictates what the ball will do.

Just my 2 cents.
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Repetition is everything..

charlest · « **Reply #14 on:** January 21, 2008, 08:35:38 AM »

quote:
I just wanna know if the two different layouts will provide different ball motion and nobody has answered that question yet. Yes, I know surface is the big determinator but will there be enough difference to differentiate?
--------------------
Scott

Since I haven't tested it, I can't say for sure. But with the same surface, I am INCLINED to think they will not provide enough difference. Kicking the CG and really. more importantly, the MB that far left and that far right, could make the ball roll/track funny.

Surface is on average 70% of the ball reaction, With the BGC I venture to say it's 90+% of the ball reaction.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
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Author Topic: B/G Centaur Different Layouts (Read 2092 times)

scotts33

B/G Centaur Different Layouts

charlest

Re: B/G Centaur Different Layouts

scotts33

Re: B/G Centaur Different Layouts

Krumpy300

Re: B/G Centaur Different Layouts

charlest

Re: B/G Centaur Different Layouts

charlest

Re: B/G Centaur Different Layouts

kalannar

Re: B/G Centaur Different Layouts

Juggernaut

Re: B/G Centaur Different Layouts

charlest

Re: B/G Centaur Different Layouts

scotts33

Re: B/G Centaur Different Layouts

TWOHAND834

Re: B/G Centaur Different Layouts

Krumpy300

Re: B/G Centaur Different Layouts

scotts33

Re: B/G Centaur Different Layouts

Krumpy300

Re: B/G Centaur Different Layouts

charlest

Re: B/G Centaur Different Layouts