Author Topic: ball comparison (Read 1458 times)

Trackoholic · « **on:** May 04, 2008, 10:49:50 AM »

Can anyone give a comparison between the XXXL and a Slate blue gargoyle?

charlest · « **Reply #1 on:** May 04, 2008, 06:53:23 PM »

you do realizing you're comparing a plastic ball with a Pearl urethane, right?
(despite the cores) The SBG still has a larger flare potential.

They are goto balls, not alternative ball.
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Trackoholic · « **Reply #2 on:** May 04, 2008, 07:04:03 PM »

Yes Charlest, I guess what I should have said was how do the reaction shapes of each compare? I understand urethane is stronger than plastic, but I've never used a pearl urethane, just solid, and it can be early. So is the SBG earlier, more in the back end, or both, and by approximately how much?

charlest · « **Reply #3 on:** May 04, 2008, 08:00:55 PM »

quote:
Yes Charlest, I guess what I should have said was how do the reaction shapes of each compare? I understand urethane is stronger than plastic, but I've never used a pearl urethane, just solid, and it can be early. So is the SBG earlier, more in the back end, or both, and by approximately how much?

I've never thrown any of the 7 or 8 XXXLs (

), but the pearl urethane will ALWAYS be earlier. How early? It all depends on the bowler and less so, on the drilling. Drillign will make a far greater difference on the pearl urethane solely because it reacts more to oil and dry than any plastic. The pearl urethanes, the SBG, will handle light to medium light oil depending on your hand. The XXXL, or any plastic, will handle dry to light oil; how much hook you get depends more on your hand than the drilling. When there's plenty of dry, and you have average or more revs, the drilling will probably make some difference.
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Trackoholic · « **Reply #4 on:** May 04, 2008, 08:40:04 PM »

Charlest, since you havn't thrown an XXXL how much weaker is the SBG than the Neptune in oil & dry, without the layout variable?

charlest · « **Reply #5 on:** May 04, 2008, 09:34:41 PM »

quote:
Charlest, since you havn't thrown an XXXL how much weaker is the SBG than the Neptune in oil & dry, without the layout variable?

I haven't compared them directly. The Neptune gets longer natural length than the SBG. With a 5" pin-PAP, above the ring finger, on each one, both can handle lighter oils, but the SBG being pearl urethane will not go as long and will have a more controlled backend. You can get deeper with the Neptune, just because it is a resin pearl, if that is necessary. The more hand you have the deeper you can get with the SBG. Average hands will probably have to go no deeper than between 3rd and 4th arrow, at the most. The SBG will probably go around carrydown easierbecause you're already outside, in general.
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Strider · « **Reply #6 on:** May 04, 2008, 09:59:24 PM »

The SBG is definitely a lot earlier than the XXXL. The SBG will probably be earlier than most any reactive ball. It's just the way urethane is, polished or pearlized or however it's drilled. The SBG will handle a bit more oil, but not a bunch more. For me it's more sensitive to carry down also. I haven't thrown my SBG in some time. I just never had that much success with it. Works great for most of a game, then I alternate between flat 10's and high 4 pins. Personally when it gets too dry for playing a big swing with pearlized resin, I prefer the plastic XXXL over the urethane SBG.
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Trackoholic · « **Reply #7 on:** May 05, 2008, 06:18:30 PM »

Thanks for all of the onfo.

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #8 on:** May 06, 2008, 09:17:54 AM »

I have tried some shots with an XXXL some time ago (when it was still black), and it did not convince me either. It is polyester, and unless you are rev dominant, you need a bone dry back end to make this ball hook. The core stabliizes it somehow, even with my lower revs, but it does not "work" with the lane surface, so it is IMO either a very special condition piece or simply not necessary (*ducks-for-cover*).

The SBG is IMHO an overall more potent piece. The core has some good flare potential, and the urethane coverstock is quite modern, not the old school type from Faball's Hammers.
It is pretty strong - I have mine drilled stacked leverage, and it is effectively a tad too strong for me with this setup. But I have never had it burn up on fried lanes, and I need to play it with confiodence and authority (and good revs), then it is an excellent piece on various conditions for me. Just took me some time to "learn" this. The SBG's cover has some grip to offer, and also suffers less from pin deflection than polyester. It is a very good medium-dry to dry lane ball.

Just for fun and reference, a current video of mine where I used the SBG against my "new" Blue Hammer from 1993 and a 2003 black Pure Hammer - there you can also see how much and early the strong drilling makes my SBG break, its reaction is more midlane than back end:

http://media.putfile.com/Urethane-strikes-back-Faball-Blue-Hammer-vs-Pure-Hammer--Slate-Blue-Gargoyle
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Edited on 5/6/2008 9:20 AM

Trackoholic · « **Reply #9 on:** May 06, 2008, 06:19:56 PM »

Nice vid, I want the SBG. Maybe I'll find one. I saw them new for 150, but thats pretty steep. I would hate to pay more because it's rare, but I might. Thanks for the info

Strider · « **Reply #10 on:** May 06, 2008, 10:19:48 PM »

I threw my SBG in league tonight since we were in last with no way of improving. Shot a solid 644 with it. Didn't try anything else, so don't know what the lanes would have given me with resin.

Anyway, unless dizzy's video is deceiving, his SBG gets a lot more back end than mine. Where his makes a definitive move the last 5-10 feet, mine makes a gentle arc the last 20 or so feet of the lane. Dizzy doesn't have more hand than me, so I can only assume that his back ends are very clean. I'm a little surprised that he didn't have more success with the XXXL. By "trying a few shots", maybe it was someone else's ball that didn't fit well enough to throw it his best?
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Mike E · « **Reply #11 on:** May 07, 2008, 06:51:31 PM »

Trackholic, I have a SBG drilled 6" P to P,Pin above fingers,3&3/4" above midline,45 degree C.G. placement. I also have a Red XXXL with the same pin placement as the SBG but with a 75 degree C.G. placement.I can tell you they are a nice 1-2 punch to have for lighter and dryer conditions.The SBG will of course handle some carrydown better than the xxxl which just slides in carrydown. If you were on a shot where the outsides and backends are dry with no carrydown my SBG is about 5 boards stronger in my starting spot on the lane(25 to 10 for the SBG verses 20 to 10 for the xxxl).By the way thats with the right foot and I'm right handed ( I'm anal that way).

Mike E

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #12 on:** May 09, 2008, 03:08:22 AM »

quote:

Anyway, unless dizzy's video is deceiving, his SBG gets a lot more back end than mine. Where his makes a definitive move the last 5-10 feet, mine makes a gentle arc the last 20 or so feet of the lane. Dizzy doesn't have more hand than me, so I can only assume that his back ends are very clean. I'm a little surprised that he didn't have more success with the XXXL. By "trying a few shots", maybe it was someone else's ball that didn't fit well enough to throw it his best?

Strider, remember that my SBG is drilled very strong - it breaks earlier than my Pure Hammer and alot of other balls with a high pin position in my arsenal - but you are correct: the SBG moves quite a bit with this setup, a little too much and too early to my liking (but it was sdet up this way baceuse my ball driller and I did not know the ball at all, it was the first SBG to be punched up around here!). The lanes were rather fresh and lean when I took the video, but not really grippy. It is an old AnvilLane surface - the strong core position makes the SBG roll and hook so early. It has excellent length! Through the strong core position, I have to push the ball down the lane and stay aggressive with it. If I become sluggish, the results aren't that good anymore. But again, I "blame" it on the strong setup, not the ball itself. Today, I'd drill it weaker and put the pin higher, e. g. in the ring finger or even above.

The XXXL venture was with a friend's ball, whose drilling fit my hand very well, and it had been on similar light/short conditions. Maybe today the results would be better (my release improved a lot since then, I must admit), but I did not find the XXXL convincing for my needs and game. For a pure spare ball, I prefer a traditional pancake polyester (I release spare shots with suitcase grip/90Â° side roll for long skid), and the SBG, with ist urethane coverstock, has proven itself as a very good dry lane ball for me, I'd prefer it anytime. I also bought the Blue Hammer as reference, and it is a very good dry lane ball, too due to the hard classic urethane coverstock.

But I think that an XXXL is a good choice for rev-dominant players on dry/very light lanes, because it gives them the lengthnthey need and the extra rev power makes the core work much better than my ~275 RPM at 14-15 mph. For me, it offers just no benefits, esp. for the price tag

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Author Topic: ball comparison (Read 1458 times)

Trackoholic

ball comparison

charlest

Re: ball comparison

Trackoholic

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charlest

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Trackoholic

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charlest

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Strider

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Trackoholic

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dizzyfugu

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Trackoholic

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Strider

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Mike E

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dizzyfugu

Re: ball comparison