Author Topic: Green Gargoyle (Read 1465 times)

J_w73 · « **on:** February 13, 2009, 03:42:05 AM »

I got my Green Gargoyle today and need some recommendation on drilling it. I have a slate blue gargoyle with a 6 inch pin to PAP, pin above middle finger with the cg just up and to the right of grip center. The slate is highly polished with delayed reation. It is long and smooth and perfect for 10 pins and really dry stuff. Also have a neptune for dry that is long but pretty smooth. And a widow pearl for medium oil and backend. With the Green Gargoyle I want it for dryer conditions and still have backend. Something in between the Widow and the Neptune.
The ball I got has a 5 inch pin. I'm thinking 5 or 5.5 to PAP and guess I am going to have to be closer to the VAL since the pin is so long. If I don't I will have a bunch of Thumb weight. Not sure if either one, (being close to the VAL or the thumb weight) matters all that much. I guess if I want the backend I would rather go with being closer to the VAL.

sorry for the longer post.. just want to get all the info out there now

Thanks for the help in advance.
--------------------
16-17 mph
350 rpm
PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8 up
High Game 300 x 3
High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205
PBA Xperience ave 180
years bowling 22

J_w73 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 16, 2009, 10:37:52 PM »

I got it drilled up with a 5 inch pin to pap up above the fingers close to the VAL with the cg a little lower and to the right of the center grip.. it ended up 5/8 thumb and 1/2 right. Tried it out after I got it drilled and the lanes were oily.. The ball did not want to move a lick.. Had to slow it down alot and really put some hand into it before it even thought about moving... not too concerned cause this is not what I wanted it for.
Went to a tourney on the weekend and the lanes happened to be dry. Had a good look with my neptune the 1st two games.. straight down 10 with a good snap on the back to the pocket.. I was losing the backend cause the neptune was burning up a bit on the third game so I tried out the gargoyle. Got down the lane with ease and made a snappy turn on the backend just like the Neptune the first game.. maybe a bit bigger.. so I guess the Gargoyle will handle less oil than the Neptune but I think it will work perfectly for me..
I'm pretty happy with it so far.. I gonna use it for drier dry lanes so I don't think I will have to worry about the carrydown or squirtyness that you experienced..
I was thinking about going rico with it but I didn't know if that would kill the backend on the ball so I went with what I did.

thanks for the feedback though..
what conditions do you use it on mostly? What boards are you covering with it?

--------------------
16-17 mph
350 rpm
PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8 up
High Game 300 x 3
High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205
PBA Xperience ave 180
years bowling 22

J_w73 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 16, 2009, 11:21:20 PM »

also, wondering if anyone knows if BTM reviewed this ball. I don't see it on the review spreadsheet that goes back to 2002. If anyone knows the ratings they gave the ball could you send them my way.. Thanks.
--------------------
16-17 mph
350 rpm
PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8 up
High Game 300 x 3
High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205
PBA Xperience ave 180
years bowling 22

charlest · « **Reply #3 on:** February 17, 2009, 05:49:29 AM »

I'm sure they rated it, but it was probably around 2000.
I don't think a 5" pin can (or should ?) be used on a Rico drilling. They (Rico) recommend a 2-3" pin for a Rico.

I have had 2 Green Meanies. The first I drilled a simple 4x4, pin under the ringer. It was a skid/flip monster on light to medium-light oil. The 2nd one I went to an extreme, although I was only a tweener at the time: pin left of the liddle finger, CG in grip center (I am a righty). This was much more controllable and I used at Nationals to go down the boards for 2 nice 600s in team and singles one year.

I just picked up another but haven't tried it yet.

The ball was also a carry monster IF (and this is a big "if") you could get close to the pocket. If you have any kind of average release, revs & ball speed, I'd seriously recommend a control drilling (like a Rico) or a 2x2 or a low pin, or a kicked out CG + a weight hole, to control the backend. If your speed dominant or have a release that produces a controlled reaction, then it will be great for light to medium-light oil with a more normal drilling. A 4000 Abralon finish could be a big help to control the flippiness, maybe even 2000 Abralon.

Jw,

YOur ball's 5" pin to CG, together with a 5" pin to PAP, probably allows/causes your GG to take longer to stabilize before getting into a roll. This may be why it handles such light oil.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

J_w73 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 17, 2009, 09:51:29 AM »

quote:
I'm sure they rated it, but it was probably around 2000.
I don't think a 5" pin can (or should ?) be used on a Rico drilling. They (Rico) recommend a 2-3" pin for a Rico.

I have had 2 Green Meanies. The first I drilled a simple 4x4, pin under the ringer. It was a skid/flip monster on light to medium-light oil. The 2nd one I went to an extreme, although I was only a tweener at the time: pin left of the liddle finger, CG in grip center (I am a righty). This was much more controllable and I used at Nationals to go down the boards for 2 nice 600s in team and singles one year.

I just picked up another but haven't tried it yet.

The ball was also a carry monster IF (and this is a big "if") you could get close to the pocket. If you have any kind of average release, revs & ball speed, I'd seriously recommend a control drilling (like a Rico) or a 2x2 or a low pin, or a kicked out CG + a weight hole, to control the backend. If your speed dominant or have a release that produces a controlled reaction, then it will be great for light to medium-light oil with a more normal drilling. A 4000 Abralon finish could be a big help to control the flippiness, maybe even 2000 Abralon.

Jw,

YOur ball's 5" pin to CG, together with a 5" pin to PAP, probably allows/causes your GG to take longer to stabilize before getting into a roll. This may be why it handles such light oil.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

I hear you about the rico.. I wouldn't have rico'd this ball with the 5 in pin to cg. I would have got a different one.

I haven't messed around with it that much yet. It does seem like it could be a little touchy and speed sensitive. I may mess with the surface to smooth it out a bit if it seems too uncontrollable.. I think the ball is 1500 polished OOB.. 1500 grit is pretty much the same as 4000 abralon.. so you recommend the 4000 to knock the polish off of it??
--------------------
16-17 mph
350 rpm
PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8 up
High Game 300 x 3
High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205
PBA Xperience ave 180
years bowling 22

charlest · « **Reply #5 on:** February 17, 2009, 01:39:33 PM »

If your drilling is too flippy, yes, first thing I'd suggest is a 4000 Abralon surface, which should keep the ball performing close to design but with smoother breakpoint and more control.

Keep in mind that 4000 Abralon is not = to 1500 grit polished. For most polished pearls, I (and many people) have found 4000 Abralon to allow it to handle roughly the same amount of oil with a slightly earlier brekapoint, slightly more overall hook and slightly less backend, making the whole ball more controllable.

4000 Abralon does not work all the time for every ball, no less every pearl, or everybody.

(I hate to sound like a broken record/CD, but I don't want anyone to get the idea that 4000 Abralon is some magic solution that will work all the time. People do speed read and catch only what sticks out.)
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

J_w73 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 17, 2009, 01:50:09 PM »

I get what you are saying. I meant 4000 abralon is close to 1500 Us grit.
The polish is a whole different story. Thanks for the tips.
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

charlest · « **Reply #7 on:** February 17, 2009, 03:50:13 PM »

good luck with it.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

J_w73 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 17, 2009, 03:57:01 PM »

quote:
good luck with it.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

I don't think I will get a whole lot of use out of it but I think it will work for exactly what I want it for.. and maybe even that occasion when nothing else is working.
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

charlest · « **Reply #9 on:** February 17, 2009, 05:48:15 PM »

Actually, this ball has a huge potential. I've seen people with a "normal" drilling and the surface of around 800 grit US with a very light shine or roughly 1000 grit matte finish (2000 Abralon) just kill on a house shot, true medium oil pattern. Because it's an older ball, people tend to ignore it and look for "newer" technology. This ball hits as strong as any ball ever made, with the right surface for the bowler's release.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

J_w73 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 17, 2009, 06:04:03 PM »

quote:
Actually, this ball has a huge potential. I've seen people with a "normal" drilling and the surface of around 800 grit US with a very light shine or roughly 1000 grit matte finish (2000 Abralon) just kill on a house shot, true medium oil pattern. Because it's an older ball, people tend to ignore it and look for "newer" technology. This ball hits as strong as any ball ever made, with the right surface for the bowler's release.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

I will agree with the hit.. I don't know if it is the core.. which looks super simple by design.. but from what I have seen this ball hits hard.. and so does my slate blue gargoyle.. Hardest hitting straight ball (mine is 6" pin to pap,.5 micron polished with delay reaction) I have seen.
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

Edited on 2/17/2009 7:05 PM

charlest · « **Reply #11 on:** February 17, 2009, 08:10:04 PM »

Wish you hadn't brought that up. My Slate Blue is drilled the same as my new, used GG except that the GG is 15 lbs and the SBG is 16. Haven't been using the SBG as my Blue/Green Centaur kills when anything else doesn't work. As long as the oil is not heavier than medium, it can pick up out of almost any hole. (Famous last words)
But a comparison of the GG and the SBG should be interesting.
--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Author Topic: Green Gargoyle (Read 1465 times)

J_w73

Green Gargoyle

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