Good choice. I RICO'ed everything for about a year...then everything just started too early and I needed to get some lope through the heads so I moved away from RICO...but good choice.

Also.........

I came across today, 14#....NIB......

AMB Particle Centaur

Yes, its mine.

I also know that the chances of me using this on anything short of a 50' pattern with triple oil is highly unlikely, but it is that one ball I will always take with me when I travel to make sure I can get something to wrinkle.

That ball is a beast, greatest heavy oil ball ever! In my opinion.

I had an AMB Pearl a while back.  Threw it off and on for about 1 year.  It was hit or miss for me.  When I was lined up and conditions matched, watch out.  Otherwise, it was ugly for me. 

I did drill up a used Mixed Breed a few years back.  Just didn't care for the reaction.

I guess my drawback now is that I have no idea where anything would fit relative to my current equipment.

Visionary is in the process of building back their lineups. Will they have what they once had? Who knows. But I do know that their current lineup of Ravens's, Samurai and Warlock XV's are good choices. There are some holes but they are being addressed. The difference is VBP doesn't release balls every 30-45 days which I like, and the quality is really good as well as the help they give.

I don't know your current line up but I think you could find something out of the current lineup to work.

Strapper

Your issue with the Mixed Breed, was it related to the Z spin? I know at first some did not know it was labeled as a Z spin and that caused layout issues, etc.

VBP said no more Z spinners in the future because of the issues it caused.

You might like one of the new Ravens.

Jammin

I do think the AMB Centaur is the best heavy oil ball ever. I remember Britton's first 6 shots on videoballreviews with the ball and I think he finally touched the headpin on a runaway brooklyn on the 6th shot. He was amazed by the reaction.


The only other ball I have ever seen that may come close was an AMF Epoxy test ball that was showcased at the Trade Shows in 2004 (I was at Classic's Trade Show in Ft Wayne, In when I saw it in person) by AMF to show the differecnes they could make in the Epoxy covers. Fig was the Brand Manager at the time and he told us this was the most ridiculous ball he has ever seen in terms of strength. The ball was so aggressive I don't think anyone ever got the ball past the arrows without it going in the gutter. The ball was not sanctioned and obviously nothing like it ever came out (other than the EPX from Columbia, but that was TAME compared to this ball).

Yeah I remember people talking about that, and how crazy the response to the EPX was, crazy..

Most bowlers can go with what Visionary says a ball fits for lane conditions.  If they say a ball is for med-light, then for most bowlers it will fit that lane condition.

What's kind of throwing me off is the differences in one line. For the bigger companies you usually see one line of balls/cores fit for a specifically lane condition, like the Catalyst cores in the Crux balls all being touted as heavy oilers, the Centripetal cores in the IQ balls all basically being described for medium-heavy oil, etc.

But with Visionary's Raven line you have one saying it's for heavy oil, one for medium-heavy oil, and one for medium-light oil. I realize coverstock makes up most of the reaction for how they perform on oil but to see that range of descriptions for one line is still kind of... jarring? Probably too strong of a word but just not something I'm used to. Made me question what the real differences between the different balls in the other lines were.

Of course I'm naturally skeptical of anything advertised as well so that has a lot to do with it. 

Mi 2 is right. Look at the Ogre line that was out for several years. Particle Ogre to handle lots of volume, Orange Black Solid reactive that was a step down in handling oil and was as smooth as butter...the Blurple Ogre that was the pearl version of the Orange Black, another pearl Ogre that was a skid/flip monster, and finally the urethane Ogre that brought back almost the same coverstock as the Pink Hammer and went almost as straight as an arrow and needed significant friction to transition from skid to roll.

Other than a super oiler and a plastic, everything was pretty much covered in 5 balls, 1 core design.

Plus...look at Storm. If someone would buy every ball on the market, how do you really carry all of those to a single league session or even a tournament? Most folks carry 4 or 6...some might carry 8, but that is extreme and rare. So how many balls do you really need out for someone to make a full arsenal? VBP does a good job covering reactions with minimal releases.

But, everyone is different. You may not like them or the reaction you get. Who knows until you try one.

The lanes were so fried last night I had to use my Blue Green Centaur which is a super low diff ball from almost the start of the night and finished using my Track Spare + as a strike ball. Must be oil saving night or week or something at the bowling alley, but the point is, VBP still had a ball that allowed me to play where nobody else could even think of playing. Granted, the Blue Green Centaur is long gone and odds of finding a new one is almost nill, but at one time, this was one of the greatest niche balls available from any company.

Quote from: CoorZero on March 31, 2016, 10:32:42 PM

Quote from: MI 2 AZ on March 31, 2016, 12:05:57 AM

Most bowlers can go with what Visionary says a ball fits for lane conditions.  If they say a ball is for med-light, then for most bowlers it will fit that lane condition.

What's kind of throwing me off is the differences in one line. For the bigger companies you usually see one line of balls/cores fit for a specifically lane condition, like the Catalyst cores in the Crux balls all being touted as heavy oilers, the Centripetal cores in the IQ balls all basically being described for medium-heavy oil, etc.

But with Visionary's Raven line you have one saying it's for heavy oil, one for medium-heavy oil, and one for medium-light oil. I realize coverstock makes up most of the reaction for how they perform on oil but to see that range of descriptions for one line is still kind of... jarring? Probably too strong of a word but just not something I'm used to. Made me question what the real differences between the different balls in the other lines were.

Of course I'm naturally skeptical of anything advertised as well so that has a lot to do with it. 

Visionary has been doing this for most, if not all, of their lines.  AMB, Gargoyle, Ogre, etc, have all had balls for different oil conditions.  That way you get to use a ball line with the same core on different conditions.  Makes it easier to have or build an arsenal with the same line or core. 

Visionary tries not to have too many balls out at the same time period that cover the same conditions.  Their balls should last for hundreds or thousands of games.  At least mine have.    I still use one of the first balls I bought back in 2001.

Well said.

For the record I wasn't criticizing anything, it was much more of an observation and just trying to explain my point of view. Like I said before I have no reference point whatsoever with Visionary since I don't think I've ever seen one thrown let alone having seen the differences in one line.

I agree that most companies do have too many balls out there. Overlapping equipment is one of my biggest bowling pet peeves and people who don't look into as much as they should fall into the trap of buying a bunch of stuff that all does the same thing for them. I've seen it too many times, and yes the most common culprits are the Storm loyalists.

I did not take your post as criticism, I was trying to answer your question or provide more info to an interested bowler.

To give you some more background info, Visionary was started by some former people from the Faball company that made the original Hammer line so they have a pedigree in urethane which may explain why they have made some very good urethane balls in the past (Sorcerer, Ogre Urethane, Gargoyle Urethane, and Amulet Glowing).

They also have a very good QC program, in which they inspect every ball off the line, not just a sampling as some other companies do.  If you ever want a decent bargain, look for one of their seconds or blems as they call them.  Many of them look like a first ball.