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Author Topic: Immortal Solid question...  (Read 5900 times)

Nor Cal Bowler

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Immortal Solid question...
« on: November 30, 2008, 02:08:02 PM »
Has anyone had any success with this ball on synthetics? No matter what i set the coverstock to this ball just wants to slide all the way down the lane.

Its very confusing on why it does that....
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scotts33

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Re: Immortal Solid question...
« Reply #46 on: December 03, 2008, 07:44:27 AM »
Matt,

This is what I'd do mentioned by Stephen earlier in this thread.

Place a piece of tape on your axis, and see when the ball flares, and if it stops flaring.  If it is flaring out prior to reaching your breakpoint, than you will have a better idea as to how to proceed.  

For me with these type of balls that have a lot of flare potential which also would include balls like the Cell and some MoRich equipment that are also asymmetrical....to get the full potential out of the ball I need to make sure I stay under the ball and get more forward roll.....the more side roll and off the side to soon these balls never seem to carry as well or stay on line as well. Just my perspective.  

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bltbyj

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Re: Immortal Solid question...
« Reply #47 on: December 03, 2008, 09:06:48 AM »
scotts33,
We did put tape and like Matt said his would slide down the lane as for mine it got threw the heads and it had plenty left at the pins. I'll also try to get some video of it at are home house.

J_w73

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Re: Immortal Solid question...
« Reply #48 on: December 03, 2008, 09:22:39 AM »
quote:
Well last night Jay and I threw our Immortal solids and I also threw my Immortal Pearl.
We bowled right after league on a pair we are going to bowl on this coming weekend in a tournament (which should be very similar if they dont oil our pair for the last 3 games of the 6 gamer).
Anyways, I threw my solid and same thing, the thing slid. We didnt get it on video, but if I took a good 4mph off the ball, it read and struck.

Jay's ball worked great which is why he says the ball works good for him on dry rather then a wet condition.

I noticed throwing both immortals is I know Im a low tracker but the balls had a really weird track on the ball with the combo I think of the flair and my track. I have to see if I can get pics to show it or not. I may have to use a grease pencil to highlight it...
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so you threw his and it worked better.  Is this on wood or synthetics.


did you ever throw your immortal with the other drill on it before plugging..?  looks like that would have been a similar pin placement with a larger deg for the MB..

that is what is weird is that your ball should read faster and transition quicker based on the MB..

what degree of axis rotation were you throwing??

Maybe there is a happy medium for the mb on those balls that works.. mine is pin up 70 deg.. yours is pin down probably 45.. maybe smaller.. maybe something in the middle is the key


Edited on 12/3/2008 10:39 AM
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Nor Cal Bowler

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Re: Immortal Solid question...
« Reply #49 on: December 03, 2008, 09:35:49 AM »
quote:
quote:
Well last night Jay and I threw our Immortal solids and I also threw my Immortal Pearl.
We bowled right after league on a pair we are going to bowl on this coming weekend in a tournament (which should be very similar if they dont oil our pair for the last 3 games of the 6 gamer).
Anyways, I threw my solid and same thing, the thing slid. We didnt get it on video, but if I took a good 4mph off the ball, it read and struck.

Jay's ball worked great which is why he says the ball works good for him on dry rather then a wet condition.

I noticed throwing both immortals is I know Im a low tracker but the balls had a really weird track on the ball with the combo I think of the flair and my track. I have to see if I can get pics to show it or not. I may have to use a grease pencil to highlight it...
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did you ever throw your immortal with the other drill on it before plugging..?  looks like that would have been a similar pin placement with a larger deg for the MB..


No I never threw it cause it didnt fit.
But both ball's flare rings are which is kinda hard to describe but like its on the bottom third of the ball
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I_Bowl4Money

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Re: Immortal Solid question...
« Reply #50 on: December 03, 2008, 01:56:29 PM »
quote:

Anyways, I threw my solid and same thing, the thing slid. We didnt get it on video, but if I took a good 4mph off the ball, it read and struck.



Seeing what you wrote above, gives me cause for concern that you might be a speed dominant and the ball layout is not conducive to your game.

The reason being, is that if you slowed the ball down and got a decent reaction then that tells me the ball is not coming off it's axis fast enough.

It would be interesting to hear what the tape on your PAP does.
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    J_w73

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    Re: Immortal Solid question...
    « Reply #51 on: December 03, 2008, 02:08:52 PM »
    quote:
    quote:
    quote:
    Well last night Jay and I threw our Immortal solids and I also threw my Immortal Pearl.
    We bowled right after league on a pair we are going to bowl on this coming weekend in a tournament (which should be very similar if they dont oil our pair for the last 3 games of the 6 gamer).
    Anyways, I threw my solid and same thing, the thing slid. We didnt get it on video, but if I took a good 4mph off the ball, it read and struck.

    Jay's ball worked great which is why he says the ball works good for him on dry rather then a wet condition.

    I noticed throwing both immortals is I know Im a low tracker but the balls had a really weird track on the ball with the combo I think of the flair and my track. I have to see if I can get pics to show it or not. I may have to use a grease pencil to highlight it...
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    did you ever throw your immortal with the other drill on it before plugging..?  looks like that would have been a similar pin placement with a larger deg for the MB..


    No I never threw it cause it didnt fit.
    But both ball's flare rings are which is kinda hard to describe but like its on the bottom third of the ball
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    I had an AMB particle drilled leverage.. the flare rings where like 1.5 inches or more apart and flared all the way around the ball.. looking at the last flare ring the finger holes would be on the side of the ball as it entered the pocket.. the ball didn't work well for me.. not rolling out.. just wobbled down the lane and never did anything..

    I changed it to 6 inches.. I threw it last night and the flare rings were more like a normal ball.. and it worked much much better..

    I imagine your pins are at leverage with your drill or close to it..
    I think that is just too much for these .075 balls or what ever they are..
    I'm thinking max flare isn't always good.. maybe it is the style or rotation.. not sure ..

    how far are the flare rings apart on yours and Jays ball.
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    Nor Cal Bowler

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    Re: Immortal Solid question...
    « Reply #52 on: December 03, 2008, 02:17:19 PM »
    quote:
    quote:

    Anyways, I threw my solid and same thing, the thing slid. We didnt get it on video, but if I took a good 4mph off the ball, it read and struck.



    Seeing what you wrote above, gives me cause for concern that you might be a speed dominant and the ball layout is not conducive to your game.

    The reason being, is that if you slowed the ball down and got a decent reaction then that tells me the ball is not coming off it's axis fast enough.

    It would be interesting to hear what the tape on your PAP does.
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  • Yes i am speed dominant...
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    Nor Cal Bowler

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    Re: Immortal Solid question...
    « Reply #53 on: December 03, 2008, 02:31:45 PM »
    quote:
    quote:

    Anyways, I threw my solid and same thing, the thing slid. We didnt get it on video, but if I took a good 4mph off the ball, it read and struck.



    Seeing what you wrote above, gives me cause for concern that you might be a speed dominant and the ball layout is not conducive to your game.

    The reason being, is that if you slowed the ball down and got a decent reaction then that tells me the ball is not coming off it's axis fast enough.

    It would be interesting to hear what the tape on your PAP does.
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  • Stephen or Scott,

    Would the same apply to the IP then as the IS layout wise to get it to wanna match up better. cause both have the track going down the same area on both balls.
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    I_Bowl4Money

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    Re: Immortal Solid question...
    « Reply #54 on: December 03, 2008, 06:50:03 PM »
    Nor Cal,

    Let's get this post in order.

    1) You're a speed dominant bowler, what is your PAP?

    2) What is the layout on your Imm. Solid (pin to pap, drill angle, val angle, ball surface)?

    3) What is the layout on your Imm. Pearl (pin to pap, drill angle, val angle, ball surface)?

    Nor Cal...I just looked at your profile and notice the OGRE line you have in your bag.  The leverage drillings make sense to me being that you're speed dominant, however, the drill angle and the val angle on those would be interesting to know.


    Edited on 12/3/2008 7:52 PM
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    I_Bowl4Money

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    Re: Immortal Solid question...
    « Reply #55 on: December 03, 2008, 06:54:50 PM »
    I'm going to give you my thoughts on locating the PAP, Ball Reaction/Motion. It is lengthy so I apologize, but hopefully this will help moving forward.

    PAP TESTING:

    - Place a 1x1 inch piece of white tape on your PAP
    - When the ball leaves your hand and lands on the lane, the tape should remain stable, almost motionless on the ball.

    - If the tape is not stable, then chances are your PAP is not marked properly and you should go through the steps necessary to retrace your PAP location.

    BALL REACTION/MOTION TESTING:

    - There are 3 phases of ball motion...SKID, HOOK, ROLL

    - SKID PHASE - this is the first phase of ball motion and the one that works together with your PAP marking. When the ball is in the skid phase, it is rotating on your PAP and the tape is almost motionless on the ball. As it encounters friction, the tape becomes unstable and begins to move around the ball, entering the HOOK Phase.

    - HOOK PHASE - this is the phase of ball motion where the ball begins flaring and core and cover begin working together to produce the balls reaction on the lane. During this phase, the new ball surface is coming in contact with the lane as it moves down the lane. Once the ball surface has stopped flaring, the ball enters the ROLL Phase.

    - ROLL PHASE - this is the final phase of ball motion where the ball is basically slowing down the most and no longer creating new surface to lane contact. This is an important part of ball motion because entering this phase too soon can adversely affect carry potential of your bowling balls.

    These are the things I think about when I'm ever having issues with ball reaction. Hope this helps you out.


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    bltbyj

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    Re: Immortal Solid question...
    « Reply #56 on: December 04, 2008, 12:09:53 AM »
    Stephen,
    Here is a shot of the Immortal Solid from last night 12-2-08. Let me know what you think.

    http://s266.photobucket.com/albums/ii260/BLTBYJ/?action=view¤t=Immortalsolid.flv

    J_w73

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    Re: Immortal Solid question...
    « Reply #57 on: December 04, 2008, 01:27:05 AM »
    quote:
    Stephen,
    Here is a shot of the Immortal Solid from last night 12-2-08. Let me know what you think.

    http://s266.photobucket.com/albums/ii260/BLTBYJ/?action=view¤t=Immortalsolid.flv



    is that yours or Matt's
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    I_Bowl4Money

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    Re: Immortal Solid question...
    « Reply #58 on: December 04, 2008, 04:42:15 AM »
    BLTBYJ,

    What is the layout on that ball?

    What is the cover at on that ball?
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    Atochabsh

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    Re: Immortal Solid question...
    « Reply #59 on: December 04, 2008, 06:15:23 AM »
    I am speed dominant.  Love stacked leverage drills.  Bowl at the same center (old synthetics but known to put down the most oil as any house in our assoc., maxing out on some readings at 80 units in the middle for zero lineage) as Nor Cal, plus some others.  This ball is sitting on my used ball rack.  If anyone wants one (15lbs) with low mileage let me know.

    bltbyj

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    Re: Immortal Solid question...
    « Reply #60 on: December 04, 2008, 09:09:09 AM »
    Stephen,
    Here is the lay out of the ball and the cover is Grey pad no polish and the front part of the lane is synthetic and the rest wood.

    http://s266.photobucket.com/albums/ii260/BLTBYJ/?action=view¤t=DSC02409.jpg

    And J_w73,
    That is my ball.


    Edited on 12/4/2008 10:11 AM