Post by: pisces_void on February 17, 2009, 03:44:48 PM
Needless to say I was pretty upset because I put so much effort into having that ball drilled to work for me and it was the only ball in my arsenal to be damaged.
A few days ago I got my hands on another one of these beauties (16 lbs NIB) and I once again would like some advice on what to do with it. Currently I have the following in my arsenal:
Black Widow, Black Widow Bite, Ogre Particle, Red Zone x3, Pyro, Diablo, Fury, Drive, and an old Black Scout Urethane.
Most of my gear is 16lbs so the weight change is a welcome one. I'm looking for a type of layout that could handle more oil with me still throwing the ball around 18 mph. Also, I'd like to know what kind of drilling patterns anyone else has tried and what seemed to work best with the executioner.
Post by: Nor Cal Bowler on February 18, 2009, 08:29:17 AM
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Post by: pisces_void on February 18, 2009, 10:11:46 AM
Post by: Nor Cal Bowler on February 18, 2009, 12:02:29 PM
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Post by: pisces_void on February 18, 2009, 12:08:29 PM
Could you go into more detail about the type of line you play with that drill and how much hand/revs you put on the ball to get it moving for you?
Post by: livespive on February 18, 2009, 12:22:42 PM
A BRAND NEW 16lb CHARCOAL !!!!
I think I am going to cry lmao
.Now to the drilling at hand:
What is your style (Cranker, tweener, stroker)
If the ball does have a 3-4 inch pin, you could put the pin at leverage,
and move the MB (CG) from there. The one that I just sold to Nor Cal was drilled label leverage, and it did great OOB on oil. If you need a little more roll you can swing the cg out.
If you are trying to use it in oil I wouldn't place the pin out any farther than 4 inches from the pap.
I like leverage drillings so all of my executioners were set up that way. I get the reactions I wanted by Changing the covers, and cg placement.
Label, Stacked, and 315 with a variety of covers.
--------------------
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Post by: pisces_void on February 18, 2009, 12:36:02 PM
I'm definitely not a cranker, but I'm not sure as to whether I'm a tweener or a stroker. I get pretty low in my approach, take 5 steps, ball generally goes head level on first ball and above head level when I go for spares. I don't cup my wrist and I sort of concentrate on pulling the ball by the fingertip grips after my thumb is out of the ball on the bottom of my swing. I have a fairly good slide on my release and stay low throughout the follow through.
I generally like to play off of the 5 board, moving right as the oil moves on me, but this doesn't seem to work well for me once I play on longer and heavier oiled patterns. In those situations I typically end up either playing straight up 5 board or angled to the pocket off of the 3 board if I really can't get a good reaction. I think this is just because I'm bowling a little too fast for my rev rates on heavy/longer oiled patterns and I have a hard time getting myself to slow down my ball speed.
Post by: livespive on February 18, 2009, 12:40:24 PM
quote:
How does it handle an early roll? Does it die out sometimes if your speed drops a little? I don't really crank so I don't know if that would effect how you would go about rolling that kind of layout.
Could you go into more detail about the type of line you play with that drill and how much hand/revs you put on the ball to get it moving for you?
I was typing while you were....
Seeing as you don't put a lot of hand in it you will probably want to go with the leverage to get the ball to flare. A 10:30 drill will give you more roll than a 12:00, or 1:30.
What Type of line are you trying to play?
--------------------
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Post by: livespive on February 18, 2009, 12:55:12 PM
quote:
Yes I know you would eventually see this lol. You really helped me find a good drill last time I asked for help so I figured you'd be more than happy to help again.
I'm definitely not a cranker, but I'm not sure as to whether I'm a tweener or a stroker. I get pretty low in my approach, take 5 steps, ball generally goes head level on first ball and above head level when I go for spares. I don't cup my wrist and I sort of concentrate on pulling the ball by the fingertip grips after my thumb is out of the ball on the bottom of my swing. I have a fairly good slide on my release and stay low throughout the follow through.
I generally like to play off of the 5 board, moving right as the oil moves on me, but this doesn't seem to work well for me once I play on longer and heavier oiled patterns. In those situations I typically end up either playing straight up 5 board or angled to the pocket off of the 3 board if I really can't get a good reaction. I think this is just because I'm bowling a little too fast for my rev rates on heavy/longer oiled patterns and I have a hard time getting myself to slow down my ball speed.
Definately leverage,
I play around 10-12 with the 315 doing down and in. If I move left and play in the oil in the early games I would use the label, and can swing it out a little (lettling my fingers rip the ball, and then the ball did the work).
The 10:30 or 1:30 would work, Just note, if it doesn't look like it is hooking polish it before you try sanding it. The first label leverage that I used I tried it and it looked like it didn't hook, until I took it to nationals and it seen more oil, so when I got home I polished it and it worked. It kept the ball from buring up.
--------------------
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Post by: pisces_void on February 18, 2009, 01:01:23 PM
My "go-to" tournament line is straight up 5 board and adjusting my feet a couple of boards left or right depending on what's needed. I like playing this line in tournaments because I tend to make fewer errors in my lay down and can adjust faster than with the above line.
When those two fail I typically give up on trying to hook and roll my 16lbs black scout urethane up 3 board at an angle to the pocket and pull on the fingertips a little more than usual to get it to move into the 5 pin for carry.
I would like to be able to use the first line I mentioned on heavy oil, but my speed seems to prevent me from ever making it back to the pocket in time. So I generally go to the 2nd and 3rd lines when I need to. I'm hoping I can drill the executioner to be able to do this for me.
I bowl in 2 separate houses for league and maintain very close to the same average even though one of the houses is a heavier/longer oil pattern than the one that lets me hook the ball more.
Post by: pisces_void on February 18, 2009, 01:02:31 PM
Post by: livespive on February 18, 2009, 01:13:21 PM
--------------------
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Post by: pisces_void on February 18, 2009, 01:14:52 PM
Post by: livespive on February 18, 2009, 01:27:43 PM
Label leverage would be 10:30 for you
Pin at leverage, and cg at 1:30 is what you might try to get more of a roll on the ball.
then you can trow it out of box, and see if you need to adjust the cover.
------f---f---
-----p---------
-----------------
---cg--------------
--------t----------
--------------------
Eric T. Spivey, P.E.
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Post by: pisces_void on February 18, 2009, 01:33:29 PM
With this drill I'd be able to play deeper in off of the 5 board on oilier patterns correct? I know it will be right up there with my black widows at my shorter pattern house with that kind of drill, just want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly in terms of more oil.
Post by: livespive on February 18, 2009, 01:45:27 PM
quote:
Thank you so much for helping me out again. As soon as I get it shipped to me I'll take it to my pro and have him have him drill it up this way (might be adjusted a little since he knows what I need done better than i do most of the times).
With this drill I'd be able to play deeper in off of the 5 board on oilier patterns correct? I know it will be right up there with my black widows at my shorter pattern house with that kind of drill, just want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly in terms of more oil.
Yeah, with your speed, the rollier layout should be fine for you. Your driller might kick the cg out a little more left or maybe bring it in and stack it depending on how he knows your game, but as long as the pin is in leverage you will get the most flare, which is what you need.
Let me know how it goes.
--------------------
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Post by: pisces_void on February 18, 2009, 01:52:22 PM
Post by: livespive on February 18, 2009, 01:55:34 PM
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Post by: Nor Cal Bowler on February 18, 2009, 02:20:52 PM
quote:
Oops lol then reverse the 10:30 1:30 comments
Label leverage would be 10:30 for you
Pin at leverage, and cg at 1:30 is what you might try to get more of a roll on the ball.
then you can trow it out of box, and see if you need to adjust the cover.
------f---f---
-----p---------
-----------------
---cg--------------
--------t----------
--------------------
Eric T. Spivey, P.E.
Visionary Test Staff Member
http://www.visionarybowling.com
http://www.maysbowlingandbilliards.com
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Yeah mine is drilled more like this...
-----F--F------
---------P-----
---------------
-------------CG
---------------
------T--------
Not to scale of course lol...
--------------------
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Post by: livespive on February 18, 2009, 08:46:46 PM
quote:quote:
Oops lol then reverse the 10:30 1:30 comments
Label leverage would be 10:30 for you
Pin at leverage, and cg at 1:30 is what you might try to get more of a roll on the ball.
then you can trow it out of box, and see if you need to adjust the cover.
------f---f---
-----p---------
-----------------
---cg--------------
--------t----------
--------------------
Eric T. Spivey, P.E.
Visionary Test Staff Member
http://www.visionarybowling.com
http://www.maysbowlingandbilliards.com
Ball Reviews FAQ (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
BR.com search hack: http://www.bowling-info.com/Search.html
Yeah mine is drilled more like this...
-----F--F------
---------P-----
---------------
-------------CG
---------------
------T--------
Not to scale of course lol...
--------------------
Visionary Test Staffer 08/09
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Proshop Apprentice
Looking for the following...
16# Banger Hole Finder Pearl
16# InSite Revelation
Yeah, it's about the same layout.
--------------------
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Post by: gsback on February 19, 2009, 02:36:34 PM
Eric T. Spivey, P.E.
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Post by: livespive on February 20, 2009, 07:37:55 AM
quote:
Eric's new sig.....
Eric T. Spivey, P.E.
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--------------------
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HEY!!!!
Don't knock it till you tied it
lolIt's the first ball out of my bag, and I use it as my Benchmark ball.
Time to share with those lucky enoughh to still have an executioner
:The 315 degree layout system (From Mario's Secrets)
The final layout we would like to show you can only be used on a Pin-In ball (1" or less) that has the mass bias premarked. This is the 315 Degree layout. Since there are 360 degrees around the ball, you can simply use a 45 degree angle on the opposite side of the line to produce the 315. Once the ball is drilled, the static weights must be checked to see where an extra hole will be needed. The extra hole can be put above the PAP because the chances are that the player will not flare that far. If, however, flare is a problem, then use a smaller, deeper hole to bring the ball back to legal, and let the ball flare over the hole. If the starting lop weight is low enough, then drill the finger holes very deep. This layout can only be used in special balls and laid out by an experienced ball-driller.
The advantage of this layout?
The ball should deliver a smooth, hard arc on the backend, even when release mistakes are made. The amount of hook is generally the same, and the ball follows the same path, even if you attempt to 'hit it a bit harder' or 'back off' the release. This ball is used on shots which require accuracy in the first 30 feet of lane, but still need hitting power at the backend. To be more accurate usually requires less hand action, which is exactly what this layout likes.
So there you have it
--------------------
Eric T. Spivey, P.E.
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Edited on 2/20/2009 8:45 AM
Post by: Nor Cal Bowler on February 20, 2009, 08:01:25 AM
quote:
Eric's new sig.....
Eric T. Spivey, P.E.
Visionary Test Staff Member and originator of Livespive 3:15
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http://www.maysbowlingandbilliards.com
Ball Reviews FAQ
BR.com search hack: http://www.bowling-info.com/Search.html
--------------------
BR.com.....going down the toilet one nugget at a time!!
g thing is back....with a vengeance!!
www.visionarybowling.com - Accept no substitute for the very best there is!!
--------------------
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Looking for the following...
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Post by: livespive on February 20, 2009, 08:06:03 AM
lmao--------------------
Eric T. Spivey, P.E.
Visionary Test Staff Member, and originator of The Livespive 315° drill
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Post by: gsback on February 20, 2009, 08:47:54 AM
I would, however, go with the originator of Livespive 3:15°!! You just gotta put that religious reference in there!!
--------------------
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g thing is back....with a vengeance!!
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Post by: scotts33 on February 20, 2009, 08:54:36 AM
--------------------
Scott
Post by: livespive on February 20, 2009, 09:02:07 AM
quote:
Interesting read actually Eric!!
I would, however, go with the originator of Livespive 3:15°!! You just gotta put that religious reference in there!!
--------------------
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g thing is back....with a vengeance!!
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Done lol
--------------------
Eric T. Spivey, P.E.
Visionary Test Staff Member, and originator of The Livespive 3:15° drill
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