Post by: scotts33 on April 08, 2009, 03:28:13 PM
I have been sliding 20 and rolling 10 or so a can't miss with this piece. Good gawd. I did change my roll to a puck shot down and in....I can not miss. On a Great China Wall I have enough roll and hit....amazing.
Pin next to ring CG stacked below X hole on gradient line P2. I have not rolled below 670 with this ball since using it as my main ball. Know that I am NOT hitting it just rolling it off my hand bent off to the side cut down to 250 I am guessing.
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Scott
Post by: Nor Cal Bowler on April 09, 2009, 12:00:06 AM
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Visionary Test Staff Member and owner of every worldwide Visionary release...
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Post by: scotts33 on April 09, 2009, 12:23:04 AM
I need to change my whole outlook and ability to play the lanes when facing this lane condition.
Most heavy handed guys move inside and rev it up inside and on a wet/dry block if you hit the dry early you are thru the nose......faces up too early. BUT, if you move your feet right out to the dry and puck it up 10 and outside as long as there is some head oil you can get it thru heads and it faces up in the pocket. If you can't do it with an Ogre particle then a B/G Centaur with some slight surface will do the same.
I believe you have to have more than once/two releases/speeds to do this but yes it's easily able to be done.
You have to be able to get your head around the changes......lane conditions and your abilities.
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Scott
Post by: charlest on April 09, 2009, 09:33:09 AM
"can puck it"?? Do you mean faster ball speed??
Practiced with Krumpy300 yesterday. Saw him throw his OPart. He had it at 2000 Abralon. He had about 3 boards to hit, they all had arrows on them. (Couldn't resist the joke. If he ever missed by that much, the sun wouldn't rise that day.) He had plenty of area and it was throwing messengers around as if he were throwing 25 mph. I was thinking of trying another Ogre Solid, now I have to re-think that idea. He had told me he loved it but you have to see him throw it to understand his understatement.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: scotts33 on April 09, 2009, 12:12:23 PM
quote:
"can puck it"?? Do you mean faster ball speed??
Jeff,
Bypuck itI mean slightly faster ball speed with less revs/less hand. From my normal under the ball release with around 325 rpm....I use a broken hand off the side release figuring this cuts my revs down to around 250-275.
After trying my Ogre Particle at 1000ab with slight amount of Legends polish....I saw what Ken did and decided to try it at 2000ab. I like the read better in the mids and back and not too much surface so I can't get it thru the heads. I also keep my Gladiator Solid at OOB 2000ab. I can play further out with the Ogre Particle with feet right by 2 boards.
From what I see at Natl's...I'd believe an Ogre Particle would be perfect for the fresh playing a tighter line using the surface to control the backend.
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Scott
Post by: Krumpy300 on April 09, 2009, 12:14:38 PM
I generally try to stand 20ish and play anywhere between 13-9 with mine. I do get my hand in the ball a bit, but I don't have a lot of tilt. I can see someone who comes around the ball more getting it to corner a bit. With the angle I like to play I rarely leave a solid ten, more eight pins left than ten pins so far.
When I have been able to use it, I am averaging 17 pins higher than my league average. I have used it at OOB, 1000 plus polish and at 2000 abralon. I am almost tempted to get another and take it to 4000 or 2000 plus polish to see if I can use it on more conditions, I really like the ball that much.
If you like the Ogre series at all, get the OPART, you won't be disappointed. Not your typical particle ball, far from it.
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Repetition is everything..
Post by: Badger856 on April 09, 2009, 12:25:34 PM
Post by: charlest on April 09, 2009, 12:39:13 PM
Thanks for the summary.
Unlike you and Krumpy, I can't seem to get a clean release with more speed when I stay behind the ball. I can do it (almost have to) when I come around it, with more rotation.
Wonder if I'll need 4000 grit Ab, if I pick one up.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: scotts33 on April 09, 2009, 12:53:16 PM
I am watching these low rev fluffers kill THS walls around our area and say to self "self if you can't beat 'em join 'em"! So, I have been using Ogre Particle fluffing it up the track. I'd hate to think what I could average if I started to do this from the beginning of a league season.
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Scott
Post by: Krumpy300 on April 09, 2009, 02:28:36 PM
I think you would enjoy the O-PART very much. Please get one and take it to 4000 so I can check out the reaction you get
Seriously you have a release that you can get it to corner a bit while it still won't jump off the dry.
You never know until you try it
Post by: charlest on April 09, 2009, 03:02:57 PM
So, alll I'll need anywhere is the O-Part, the <middle ball> and the BG Centaur. Hmmmm ....
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: gsback on April 10, 2009, 05:58:26 AM
I've always said that with the O Particle, I can take most of my hand out of the ball and play shots with some speed to allow the ball get through the heads but still maintain some strength on the backends. Now, I don't have Scott-Revs....LOL.....but I can probably maintain a higher speed without issues or overthrowing since I really have to slow my ball down.
O Particle is a great ball!! More usable than what many think because, to me, it really doesn't react like a particle.
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BR.com.....going down the toilet one nugget at a time!!
g thing is back....with a vengeance!!
www.visionarybowling.com - Accept no substitute for the very best there is!!
Post by: charlest on April 10, 2009, 09:37:45 AM
Oddly, on some of the videos of the OPart, it seems like with the stock surface, it goes slightly longer and has more backend than the Ogre Solid. That seemed pretty strange to my eyes, but a positive thing for the OPart.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: gsback on April 10, 2009, 10:25:04 AM
quote:
Oddly, on some of the videos of the OPart, it seems like with the stock surface, it goes slightly longer and has more backend than the Ogre Solid. That seemed pretty strange to my eyes, but a positive thing for the OPart.
Agreed!! And something I stated in some of the past threads, specific to watching Britton's vids.
I've never thrown the solid, so I can't speak to the reaction, but the O Particle is a very solid ball. I think most people see Particle and they think one thing....but just like you said, this ball is more like a Reactive on steroids!!
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BR.com.....going down the toilet one nugget at a time!!
g thing is back....with a vengeance!!
www.visionarybowling.com - Accept no substitute for the very best there is!!
Post by: scotts33 on April 10, 2009, 10:54:40 AM
Here is a pic of Solid Ogre http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q29/scotts33/?action=view¤t=SolidOgre11.jpg The Solid does not have an X hole.
My Ogre Particle is drilled with pin slightly lower next to ring and CG more stacked underneath the pin and an X hole at P2.
I didn't like the Solid reaction as much as the Particle. BTW....also loved the Granite Gargoyle same cover.
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Scott
Edited on 4/10/2009 11:39 AM
Post by: gsback on April 10, 2009, 12:31:36 PM
quote:
using my weaker release letting the ball do the work
BINGO!!
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BR.com.....going down the toilet one nugget at a time!!
g thing is back....with a vengeance!!
www.visionarybowling.com - Accept no substitute for the very best there is!!
Post by: Krumpy300 on April 14, 2009, 02:54:51 PM
Still was REALLY readable off the spot. Ball is a winner.
Post by: scotts33 on April 14, 2009, 03:06:12 PM
I find the same....bowl tonite on older wood and tomorrow night on original Bruns Anvilane both surfaces the Ogre Particle works well on.
Taking an all Ogre line-up....Particle at 2000ab, Pearl at OOB and SS OOB.
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Scott
Post by: D Scott Johnson on April 14, 2009, 04:29:12 PM
I ask because I love the reaction and roll I get out of my Ogre Pearl and was looking to possible get an Ogre solid to compliment the ball for more oil and hopefully the same roll. But, other than a couple of videos, I have never seen anyone throw the Ogre solid to get a read, nor have I seen anyone throw the Ogre Particle.
So, those of you who know, I would value your opinions on the subject.
Scott
Post by: Krumpy300 on April 14, 2009, 07:41:50 PM
I don't have the Ogre Solid so I can't give you an educated guess. Based on how much I like the O-Part, I would get another with a higher level surface as opposed to getting the Solid.
Just my 2 cents.
Post by: charlest on April 15, 2009, 12:37:15 AM
quote:
If I am reading this thread correctly, then there would not be much reason for me to carry both the Ogre Solid and the Ogre Particle in my bag because there would not be enought difference to have both? Is this correct?
The problem is you really can't say that. I believe this is true becaise so much depends on
1. the bowler's delivery/release combination,
2. the drilling,
3. the oil pattern AND the amount of oil.
4. what league preceded your league (this has become an ENORMOUS factor in today's bowling)
quote:
I ask because I love the reaction and roll I get out of my Ogre Pearl and was looking to possible get an Ogre solid to compliment the ball for more oil and hopefully the same roll. But, other than a couple of videos, I have never seen anyone throw the Ogre solid to get a read, nor have I seen anyone throw the Ogre Particle.
So, those of you who know, I would value your opinions on the subject.
Scott
I have thrown the Ogre Pearl and Solid and seen Krumpy300 throw the Ogre Particle. I sold both my orginal Ogre solid and pearl!! and just bought another Ogre Pearl and am on the crux of a major dilemma: should I buy an Ogre Particle or a Solid????? I will buy one or the other. Right now I am leaning 70-30 particle vs solid.
In total seriousness,
and more than a little bit of agony, charlest
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Edited on 4/15/2009 12:04 PM
Post by: scotts33 on April 15, 2009, 10:04:15 AM
Jeff said here....
quote:
The problem is you really can't say that. I believe this is true becaise so much depends on
1. the bowler's delivery/release combination,
2. the drilling,
3. the oil pattern AND the amount of oil.
4. what league preceded your league (this has become an ENORMOUS factor in today's bowling)
I agree totally on all 4 points.
I have owned an Ogre Solid and got rid of it. I now use the Ogre Particle in it's same basic place in a line up. I would be of the opinion that they would overlap too much. I have said this before but will reiterate....because the Ogre's have a small differential IF you are playing on a flatter side to side lane condition for me anyway I need to play straighter (get my feet in the right place) as I will not get the miss room outside that a ball like a Solid Glad or a higher flaring ball gives. The Ogre's will flutter out there for me so I need to play them straighter OR if on a wet/dry THS then I don't have that worry to the outside of the lane. But, that's why we have aresenals.
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Scott
Post by: Krumpy300 on April 15, 2009, 10:14:27 AM
What were the actual differences that you saw between the Ogre Solid and O-Part??? Why did you decide on keeping the Particle?? Thanks.
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Repetition is everything..
Post by: scotts33 on April 15, 2009, 12:05:36 PM
quote:
What were the actual differences that you saw between the Ogre Solid and O-Part??? Why did you decide on keeping the Particle?? Thanks.
Ken,
Not much at 1000ab or 2000ab on either ball comparing same to same...I posted the layout I had on the Solid earlier in this thread. I think the Particle has a lil more recovery than the Solid but not a heck of a lot difference to carry both of them to the lanes unless you had vastly different coverstock surface changes. But, I have other balls like the Pearl or SS or New Breed Pearl or G-3 for that....if I want to use a pearl or a Glad. Solid which is my main benchmark ball if a solid. I don't have enough ball speed to use the solid big hookers (ie. Solid Centaur, Immortal Solid, yadda yadda)
BTW...I sold the Solid before I got the Particle. I just didn't like the read with the Solid....BUT I do love the read and ability of the Particle. In the past, I have loved the Midnight Scorcher on floods and Granite one heavier mediums.
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Scott
Post by: Krumpy300 on April 15, 2009, 09:21:29 PM
I drill a LOT of balls in general just because my curiosity gets the better of me and the O-Part is a keeper. Enough said.
Post by: scotts33 on April 16, 2009, 05:22:15 PM
We bowled rolloffs....4 teams 2 eliminated this week for championship next week. 3 round winners and best record not to win a round. We won a round. 5 man hdcp league 7 point system. Decent bowlers. 6:30 PM on a THS type pattern on older Bruns. Anvilane 40 lane center PBA bowls a Midwest regional there later this month.
So, the pattern hasn't broken down as much but weather getting warmer in spring and humidity starting to jump up. Started with the Ogre Particle..great shot lined up roll the first 6....then start leaving 10's as Particle starts rolling out a bit. Open in the 10th for 220something. We lose that game by 40 pins. Now backs up against the wall have to win next 2 games.
Have a hard time getting lined up after that try inside with Solid Glad at 2000ab and ball either reads to early in dry or slides in the puddle.....typical problem for me...then try B/G Centaur moving feet right sliding on 19 straight down and in in the dry balls rolls up nice again carry not the best. 190something we win that game by 40some pins.
Last frame in 2nd game last ball take out SS Ogre and slide 21 and up and out to the right to miss carry down and found a line to carry.
Last game first 10 and a 289 and we win going away....point here being I see most stick with the same ball that worked the week before and don't try enough things and pound out a 190-200 when and if you can find a shot to carry it's worth trying something different as long as you don't bowl your team out of it.
Ogre line continues to impress me!
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Scott
Post by: gsback on April 17, 2009, 04:41:43 AM
Take me. I like to take 4-6 balls just for the fun of it. Part of it is because I like to try different things over time, but the other reason is because I have certain stuff I pull out no matter what.
Last night I subbed in a casual league.....most of the bowlers throwing older stuff and some throw new stuff....and a lot using plastic as well.
I decided to throw the Ogre SS as I've barely gotten 2 games in with this and those were for practice more than anything else. Long....and strong.....but also touchy if you're not careful!!
Shoot 190 game 1...missing 2 10 pins and then leaving a 2-8-10. Out comes NB Solid to finish the 190 and then 240+ and 220+ for 666. Prime example....I have confidence in the ball and don't mind making a big move going from a down and in shot to a decent swing (for me).
Last week...same league?? G3 since I just got it drilled up. Gotta try everything!! LOL!!
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BR.com.....going down the toilet one nugget at a time!!
g thing is back....with a vengeance!!
www.visionarybowling.com - Accept no substitute for the very best there is!!