Author Topic: How would the Green Gargoyle react................. (Read 1828 times)

A_P_K · « **on:** September 11, 2003, 12:43:31 AM »

With a 4x3 drill pattern for a low rev tweener who throws about 16-17 MPH? Is this type of pattern going to skid for days or will it skid for hours and roll a touch sooner because of the CG out?
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In the old days people used to cut wood with axes.....................now and days...............they just have Executioners do it for them!

Pin_Krusher IS a serious threat to modern day bowling wood as we know it today.

charlest · « **Reply #1 on:** September 11, 2003, 06:58:07 PM »

It skids on a wisp of oil and needs about 3 feet of dry before it flips unmercifully and smashes the pocket. You'd probably need 3.5x1.5 or even 3.5x0 for the Cg to make a significance towards early roll. The cover is oil allergic, for most people, IS my belief. That said, if you can get it close to the pocket or flush, you'll never regret it. I've had two, sold them both and still dream of a third when I talk about it ...
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"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."

A_P_K · « **Reply #2 on:** September 11, 2003, 10:20:11 PM »

Charlest

Ok with that being said how will that drill effect the reaction on wood lanes.....say a second shift short wet/dry....pretty dry outsides and backends......a house like Strike and Spare for example?

Keep in mind this is not for me....a friend of mine....
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In the old days people used to cut wood with axes.....................now and days...............they just have Executioners do it for them!

Pin_Krusher IS a serious threat to modern day bowling wood as we know it today.

charlest · « **Reply #3 on:** September 12, 2003, 08:30:12 AM »

Bowled on 1st shift at Strike and Spare on Monday night and I died a miserable death because I did not expect so much DRY! If he has any hand at all, that ball should kill on a 2nd shift there. As I said, he has to avoid any carrydown and make sure he hits the dry.

FYI, by definition, tweeners don't have low revs; strokers do.
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"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."

Edited on 9/12/2003 8:40 AM

A_P_K · « **Reply #4 on:** September 12, 2003, 08:34:51 AM »

Ok, thanks Charlest...that's what I wanted to hear.....

I didn't know style was determined by number of revs, I thought it was by line played. Like I play straighter up with higher revs meant I'm a power stroker, and the deeper you got.....tweener.....cranker....etc....but I guess I get schooled everyday.
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In the old days people used to cut wood with axes.....................now and days...............they just have Executioners do it for them!

Pin_Krusher IS a serious threat to modern day bowling wood as we know it today.

charlest · « **Reply #5 on:** September 12, 2003, 09:17:56 AM »

quote:
I didn't know style was determined by number of revs, I thought it was by line played. Like I play straighter up with higher revs meant I'm a power stroker, and the deeper you got.....tweener.....cranker....etc....but I guess I get schooled everyday.
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It's not that "style was determined by number of revs", but that part of the definition, as it is generall recognized, is the number of revs. There is an overlap, as style, speed and other factors are also involved. I guess, in the end, your style will dictate the line you play on different oil patterns.

Remember this is just a convenient notation for us to place people in certain categories when we talk about them. Whatever class you think you are in or you place someone else in should never be considered an insult. There are no absolutes.

I see many, many people thinking and referring to themselves as medium revs, medium speed; yet, when I see them I think low revs. Then you have to think where they bowl and to whom they are comparing themselves: other league bowlers in their house. I tend to think tournaments, scratch leagues, PBA-level (national and regional) AND league bowlers. SOmeone on a PBA TV show may be considered to be a stroker; if you saw him in your league, you MIGHT think tweener or even cranker.

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"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."

TappaKegga · « **Reply #6 on:** September 12, 2003, 01:24:54 PM »

Charlset---I have gotten responses from you before re:Visionary. I noticed here that you mention Strike-N-Spare. Is that Strike-N-Spare in St. Louis? If so, you may have bowled at West County Lanes (where my league is now). Anyways, if you have, you probably know that we definately have dry outside lines, usually with oil in the middle. I have asked before about the Green Gargoyle. I'm still thinking of getting this ball. A couple of guys have a Black Executioner --- although the ball is really racing on them. Currently I'm using a Danger Zone polished up. Do you still think that as long as I swing through the oil (middle) to bounce off the outsides (remember I have very dry extreme outside) or skid through the oil to a late-break point with dry backends if available. The reason I ask is everyone seems to still rave about the GG as long as there is a dry zone to find a break point.

A_P_K · « **Reply #7 on:** September 12, 2003, 01:35:15 PM »

Tappa,

This Strike and Spare we mention is in NJ.

In my opinion the Charcoal Ex is a bad choice on house shots. It's possible you may see over under if you're the least bit inconsistent. You could go with the Crimson Ex if you want an Ex, it's a great house ball and you could get deep enough to touch the oil line without over doing it. The ball is semi allergic to oil in the heads, but will turn the corner pretty hard in the backend.

The Green Garoyle will most likely taunt you with over under as well. I doubt it will react on the oil line, but if you play the dry too long it will fly off the lane. This is still a great choice to use on the drier outsides, but you won't be able to lilve in the track area with it.
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In the old days people used to cut wood with axes.....................now and days...............they just have Executioners do it for them!

Pin_Krusher IS a serious threat to modern day bowling wood as we know it today.

Edited on 9/12/2003 1:44 PM

TappaKegga · « **Reply #8 on:** September 12, 2003, 01:48:52 PM »

Thanks APK. Everyone seems to love the GG as long as there is somewhere with a dry condition it seems. Well, at my house I can pretty much bet money that there is dry somewhere. I have found success with the Danger Zone either playing an inside line or by really swinging it to the outside. Very rarely do we find a real slick or too much oil everywhere shot. I felt that with the GG, if it started really flying on me, I would be able to move inside a little, let it skid then turn. I am anxious to try Visionary (I live in St. Louis after all). I have been thinking of a arsenal of Gargoyles (slate blue/green/granite) as being able to cover my bases in addional houses/tournys. I have a line on a Greenie that is being wholesaled, and basically wanting to try something different than my old Danger Zone. By the way, I have been classified as sort of a cranker although I don't feel I am quite that extreme. I have good amount of revs, but tradionally have not swung from gutter to gutter or with a high speed.

A_P_K · « **Reply #9 on:** September 12, 2003, 01:56:17 PM »

For the money and versatility the Gargoyle line is superb. You get top notch equipment for entry level price. You can find a line with that arsenal for just about any shot.
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In the old days people used to cut wood with axes.....................now and days...............they just have Executioners do it for them!

Pin_Krusher IS a serious threat to modern day bowling wood as we know it today.

charlest · « **Reply #10 on:** September 12, 2003, 03:29:04 PM »

TappaKegga,

As APK said, we are in NJ.
The Danger ZOne is 2-3 steps in oil handling ability and 1+ steps in overall hooking ability from a GGargoyle. Make no mistake, as far as what I said, for me the Green Gargoyle needs more than a little dry to makes its turn. It is almost as if it ignores the first 4-5 feet of dry. When I said, "definite dry", I meant it. Maybe if you are a cranker and if you drill it very strong, like a 4x2, 4x1, 3.5x2, or 3.5x1, then it can handle more oil, MAYBE then you can play the oil line, but I'd like to see that. No, I'm not saying it can't happen.

Not sure what you mean by "the ball is racing on them".

If you get a Greenie, I think you will love it, but it may drive you crazy trying to get it to work right for you, as I did, OR it may work great the first time you use it. In any case, I think you won't be sorry. You will want to make it work.

Oh, if necessary, don't be afraid to midify the surface; Visionary encourages it.

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"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."

TappaKegga · « **Reply #11 on:** September 12, 2003, 03:52:38 PM »

Thanks Charlset. The couple of guys that have the Charcoal --- by racing I meant that they frequently have trouble keeping the ball hitting the pocket versus the brooklyn side (or worse). I have a fair amount of hand, and like I said, our lanes always have a dry area. We constantly joke with the mechanic about making sure oil is in the dress machine. An example was this past Wed. I was easily throwing my Danger about 3 mph faster than the week before. Still, the ball was driving hard, but finished with a 601 series. I had joked about using my White Dot as my strike ball ---- everyone had trouble. Anyways, the week before still had the dry outside like I described, but I could play more my normal speed and stay inside with the Danger --- that week netted a 705. That was great. For my style/speed/favored lines and watching to couple of guys with the Charcoal, I do not think that would be a good ball for me in THIS house. I was just thinking that the Gargoyle line would make a nice lineup for me (and everyone says they hit like trucks)

charlest · « **Reply #12 on:** September 12, 2003, 05:14:34 PM »

TK,

Both the DZ and the Charcoal Executioner are quite a bit stronger in hook than the GG. There are any number of balls, both pearls or solids which can be polished, which can also be drilled to "mild" their overall ball reaction. These can handle the drier oil patterns you face. There are even some new VERY mild solids like thje Roto-Grip Solid-X solid and the older AMF Kick or Courage, which can handle these types of conditions very well.

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"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."

A_P_K · « **Reply #13 on:** September 22, 2003, 08:22:18 AM »

My friend had his Green drilled label leverage, the ball has obvious great length with a huge backend. The ball makes almost a L shape reaction once it hits dry. Yes it is generally oil allergic but the backend reaction will make the ball seem to hook harder than some heavy oilers out there.

Compared to the Granite it had significant more length with a sharp and dramatic turn as where the Granite rolls and starts way earlier.

It is a great compliment to the Granite, but it WILL over under on most house wet/dry shots if it plays too much dry too early.
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In the old days people used to cut wood with axes.....................now and days...............they just have Executioners do it for them!

Pin_Krusher IS a serious threat to modern day bowling wood as we know it today.

Author Topic: How would the Green Gargoyle react................. (Read 1828 times)

A_P_K

How would the Green Gargoyle react.................

charlest

Re: How would the Green Gargoyle react.................

A_P_K

Re: How would the Green Gargoyle react.................

charlest

Re: How would the Green Gargoyle react.................

A_P_K

Re: How would the Green Gargoyle react.................

charlest

Re: How would the Green Gargoyle react.................

TappaKegga

Re: How would the Green Gargoyle react.................

A_P_K

Re: How would the Green Gargoyle react.................

TappaKegga

Re: How would the Green Gargoyle react.................

A_P_K

Re: How would the Green Gargoyle react.................

charlest

Re: How would the Green Gargoyle react.................

TappaKegga

Re: How would the Green Gargoyle react.................

charlest

Re: How would the Green Gargoyle react.................

A_P_K

Re: How would the Green Gargoyle react.................