Author Topic: Spartan and Crossover (Read 6487 times)

golfnutFL · « **on:** January 03, 2011, 02:41:10 AM »

Who is selling the Spartan and the Crossover? I have not seen them online, I got both from Frankie when he brought in a couple of seeds to my local proshop....just happened to be there!

Are these order from Visionary or Pro Shop only?

scotts33 · « **Reply #16 on:** January 16, 2011, 05:06:24 PM »

If VBP starts selling directly I would think they would lose their test staff interests even if they mark them up slightly to the consumer that starts buying directly vs. what they sell as test staff pricing. VBP also would not make many pro shops happy by selling direct. Those are my thoughts but it's their business and they can do as they wish. Some will look elsewhere. It seems LM/L may be selling direct also....maybe this is the new wave of the future for small manufacturers? What the VBP policy about sales can come from them the rest is gossip.

Scott

golfnutFL · « **Reply #17 on:** January 16, 2011, 09:33:20 PM »

Agreed...but it would be nice if Jason let us loyal users of his family's equipment know just what their new sales policy IS...there has not been a peep here, on their website or anywhere else I can find that might answer that question.

scotts33 wrote on 1/16/2011 6:06 PM:If VBP starts selling directly I would think they would lose their test staff interests even if they mark them up slightly to the consumer that starts buying directly vs. what they sell as test staff pricing. VBP also would not make many pro shops happy by selling direct. Those are my thoughts but it's their business and they can do as they wish. Some will look elsewhere. It seems LM/L may be selling direct also....maybe this is the new wave of the future for small manufacturers? What the VBP policy about sales can come from them the rest is gossip.

Scott

getuaload · « **Reply #18 on:** January 17, 2011, 09:55:18 AM »

getuaload wrote on 1/14/2011 2:04 PM:
Call Jason or Betsy, They will hook you up. Tell them JP told you to call

please refer to the post please. thanks JP

TO BE THE MAN, YOU HAVE TO BEAT THE MAN

TO BE THE MAN, YOU HAVE TO BEAT THE MAN

VBPadvertising · « **Reply #19 on:** January 17, 2011, 10:32:28 AM »

Hey Guys,

We are still here, and everything is still the same as it was for the past 12 years. We sell only to Distributors, Pro Shops, and Test Staff Members. This policy has been in place since the beginning, and still holds true today. If there is ever any change to this policy, everyone will be notified in advance.

Because of the economic downturn and bowling market decline, pro shops and distributors have been faced with the decision on what balls to inventory, carry, push etc. Unfortunately, the smaller companies are usually the ones who take the brunt of these kind of situations, and this time is no different. A couple of our main distributors have cut back on the product lines they are carrying, and are no longer carrying our equipment. Because many of the online pro shops have tight connections with the distributors, this also means that some of the online shops have removed our equipment from their websites. This simply means that we are going to have to channel our sales through methods other than our traditional distributorships.

There has been a fair amount of frustration with what is going on, and people have asked why we haven't thought of going directly to the bowlers. My comment has always been that direct sales are something that we have discussed and I'm sure that every manufacturer has looked at that option at some point. A direct sales marketing approach is a method used by many successful companies (the most noticeable being DELL). It is my opinion that any company who does not atleast look at that option is doing themselves and the company an injustice.

All this being said, the bread and butter of bowling ball sales is still the pro shops, and we know that. We appreciate everything our supporting pro shops have done and continue to do for us, and we will continue to support them in any way that we can.

Jason Wonders

Visionary Bowling Products

golfnutFL · « **Reply #20 on:** January 17, 2011, 09:47:17 PM »

Jason-

Just to be clear...VBP's preferred method of distribution has now become brick and mortar pro shops only? Your statement that "some" of the online shops have removed your equipment just does not have any basis in internet search fact. Your presence in online shops is now nearly non-existent except for some clearance sales. "Channeling your sales" outside of distributors certainly signals a change in your approach to sales.

I hope that your desire to be like "Dell" allows you to sell to bowlers directly. I fear, from your statements, that B & M shops dominate your sales and will be, possibly, the only avenue to purchase. That would be OK if the pricing is competitive but we shall see about that. Exclusivity among B & M may price you out of the market. I hope not.

VBPadvertising wrote on 1/17/2011 11:32 AM:Hey Guys,

We are still here, and everything is still the same as it was for the past 12 years. We sell only to Distributors, Pro Shops, and Test Staff Members. This policy has been in place since the beginning, and still holds true today. If there is ever any change to this policy, everyone will be notified in advance.

Because of the economic downturn and bowling market decline, pro shops and distributors have been faced with the decision on what balls to inventory, carry, push etc. Unfortunately, the smaller companies are usually the ones who take the brunt of these kind of situations, and this time is no different. A couple of our main distributors have cut back on the product lines they are carrying, and are no longer carrying our equipment. Because many of the online pro shops have tight connections with the distributors, this also means that some of the online shops have removed our equipment from their websites. This simply means that we are going to have to channel our sales through methods other than our traditional distributorships.

There has been a fair amount of frustration with what is going on, and people have asked why we haven't thought of going directly to the bowlers. My comment has always been that direct sales are something that we have discussed and I'm sure that every manufacturer has looked at that option at some point. A direct sales marketing approach is a method used by many successful companies (the most noticeable being DELL). It is my opinion that any company who does not atleast look at that option is doing themselves and the company an injustice.

All this being said, the bread and butter of bowling ball sales is still the pro shops, and we know that. We appreciate everything our supporting pro shops have done and continue to do for us, and we will continue to support them in any way that we can.

Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products

mab · « **Reply #21 on:** January 18, 2011, 05:14:11 PM »

Unfortunately in my area that is just what has happened only one shop within 40 miles carry Visionary. The problem is the balls start out at 215.00 ( OGRE series) drilled grips and slug extra. I'm sorry but thats much too rich for my blood to continue. With a decent arsenal at this time I'll work with what I have but in the future I'll be forced to change manufacturers or if they follow suit then just become a casual bowler. I'm not complaining it's a choice that many of us will have to make. I build my own golf clubs from scratch, pouring my bowling balls will never happen hence having to make a choice. It will be a sad day when it comes,I just feel that it will come sooner then all of us think.

One of these days I'm going to put it all together and roll a 300 game

gsback · « **Reply #22 on:** January 19, 2011, 09:17:37 AM »

Clerk on microphone: "New pants needed for man in aisle 2. Repeat....new pants needed for man in aisle 2 after crapping his pants."

That's about what happened when I saw below. The Ogre series is mid level ball in terms of price, though definitely not in terms of performance. Now, granted I have no clue what his cost from distributor is, but it would appear to me that someone is making some serious money here in the deal.

mab wrote on 1/18/2011 6:14 PM:The problem is the balls start out at 215.00 ( OGRE series) drilled grips and slug extra.

BR.com.....going down the toilet one nugget at a time!!

g thing is back....with a vengeance!!

www.visionarybowling.com - Accept no substitute for the very best there is!!

Trimman2 · « **Reply #23 on:** January 19, 2011, 11:32:13 AM »

mab wrote on 1/18/2011 6:14 PM:
Unfortunately in my area that is just what has happened only one shop within 40 miles carry Visionary. The problem is the balls start out at 215.00 ( OGRE series) drilled grips and slug extra.

I know what I paid for the Ogre series when I had the test staff membership, that's ridculous. I'm all for pro shops making money. Does he give you a jar a vaseline to go along with the F'n he's giving?

Golfnut, have you ever thought about the test staff membership?

getuaload · « **Reply #24 on:** January 19, 2011, 11:52:33 AM »

The test staff membership is extremely well worth every penny. I highly recommend to anyone wanting to try VBP and cant find a pro shop that carries there line. They have the best customer service anyone can ask for and the fastest shipping department around.

Anyone needing more info contact Jason or Betsy @ 314-388-1752 , you can also check out the test staff membership on there website. www.visionarybowling.com

TO BE THE MAN, YOU HAVE TO BEAT THE MAN

Edited by getuaload on 1/19/2011 at 12:53 PM

charlest · « **Reply #25 on:** January 19, 2011, 02:00:06 PM »

mab,

FYI Before several internet shops stopped carrying Visionary balls, the going price for the Ogre line, delivered to your home, was in the range of $105 - $110. This is also the price, I believe, that most pro shops would pay to get one Ogre at a time from their distributor. This is why some of the above posters seem to believe this pro shop appears to be charging a lot for such a ball, drilled: profit and drilling costs on an Ogre from them seem to be about $100+ over his cost. (Of course it is possible that he is paying more than the above range for some reason.)

mab wrote on 1/18/2011 6:14 PM:Unfortunately in my area that is just what has happened only one shop within 40 miles carry Visionary. The problem is the balls start out at 215.00 ( OGRE series) drilled grips and slug extra. I'm sorry but thats much too rich for my blood to continue. With a decent arsenal at this time I'll work with what I have but in the future I'll be forced to change manufacturers or if they follow suit then just become a casual bowler. I'm not complaining it's a choice that many of us will have to make. I build my own golf clubs from scratch, pouring my bowling balls will never happen hence having to make a choice. It will be a sad day when it comes,I just feel that it will come sooner then all of us think.

One of these days I'm going to put it all together and roll a 300 game

"None are so blind as those who will not see."
BowlingChat.net

scotts33 · « **Reply #26 on:** January 19, 2011, 03:15:29 PM »

I looked up mab's drillers services cost and he does seem a bit high or higher than what I normally pay. What his driller charges may be correct or average for the area he is in...Aurora, IL.

Also see the threads about what Storm and EBI are maintaining dealer/floor pricing. Seems the cost of most bowling equipment is going to be going up for most but not all. When I joined the test staff years back the membership was a steal not so much now. I wouldn't join just to get some balls at a reasonable rate or what you think is a good deal. I'd drill one or two to see if you match up. Otherwise it may not be such a great savings.

Sorry this thread has really gotten off it original premise.

Scott

VBPadvertising · « **Reply #27 on:** January 19, 2011, 05:02:06 PM »

Our preferred method of sales has always been through distributors and brick and mortar shops. Nothing has changed in that manner. This has been the traditional method of sales within the industry for a LONG time, and will continue to be for the foreseeable future. All I was indicating, was that since a couple of distributors have cut back on the product lines that they are carrying, we unfortunately got cut out.... and since a number of the online pro shops have a close tie with those distributors, they have cut back as well. But I don't think you have to look very far or hard to find our equipment online. Bowlersdream.com, bowlerscellar.com, bowlingball.com, and a number of others still carry our equipment. Some of them do not have the entire line listed, and those things will be ironed out over time as we adjust to losing a couple of our distributors. If you do not see a ball of ours listed that you want, contact them and I'm sure they can and will get it for you. Some of them only list what they have in stock at the present time, while others list most everything and only order the balls when they have orders.

Keep in mind, that most stores have "clearance sales" even when they aren't really on clearance. Brick and Mortar stores are no different from online shops in that regard, and the word "clearance" is more often than not, just a technique used to get people to look at that item.....it does not necessarily mean that they are clearing them out to get rid of them all together.

I never said that we wanted to be like Dell, or even that we were going to take that route (although I would love to have their sales)....all I mentioned was that direct marketing is one sales route that some companies use to sell product, and that technique is something I think every company has looked into. There are a lot of positives and negatives with direct marketing.

As far as the Ogre cost is concerned, being a free market we have no control over what pro shops charge for the equipment. We can make suggestions, but ultimately it is up to them. As you can see by the prices on some websites like bowlersdream.com, the Ogres are listed for under $100, so you can make your own call on what is acceptable for a markup and drilling.

We will continue to try and do everything we can to support the pro shops and bowlers, while also trying to do what is best for the company. I don't plan on going anywhere, and while there will be some adjustments to our sales chain, we hope to continue to expand within the bowling public.

Jason Wonders

Visionary Bowling Products

Edited by VBPadvertising on 1/19/2011 at 6:04 PM

Trimman2 · « **Reply #28 on:** January 20, 2011, 05:12:42 AM »

First of all, thanks for your replies Jason. I do have one question for you, do pro shops have to go through a distributor or can they buy direct from you? I can't remember.

Now for the 2 that disagreed with my stance on the pricing for the Ogre. Yes, it's a free market and as a business owner for 17 years, I understand it.

If you 2 had done your research you would've noticed on the internet price ranges for this series of balls range from $100-$130. Now I doubt that this pro shop paid more than $130 for that ball, remember I have bought directly from Visionary from the test staff membership, so have you Scott. There is no way that price is justifiable. Can you 2 actually say that would pay that price for that ball? I doubt it very seriously.

Yes, I'm not from that area, but I know what the pro shop I go to sells his mid line for and that price is ridiculous. I can walk out of my pro shop with a high end ball for less than that.

I know JLS is from near that area, I wonder what he sells his mid line for drilled?

I'm all for the pro shops making money, but to rape the consumers. And we wonder why bowlers are quitting!!!!

Edited by Trimman2 on 1/20/2011 at 6:13 AM

scotts33 · « **Reply #29 on:** January 20, 2011, 05:38:57 AM »

Chicago being a large area to choose from if mab doesn't feel like he's getting the most bang for his buck he can go elsewhere for better pricing. The small town guy is the guy that has more of an issue.

mab's driller's services costs Is this out of line? What you pay in FL. Wayne may not be what they get in Aurora, IL? I could care less just look at all the facts and then make your best decision. Some bowlers buy Ogre's for $150 drilled other pay $200...caveat emptor.

BTW, maybe mab's driller resurfaces the ball for it's life, determines his PAP, takes him out on the lanes and works with his technique, has ALL the tools including a DeTerminator to layout balls and know drilling angles instead of guessing, knows how to use a do-do scale (how many supposed pro's do not?) and knows dual angle drilling technique, placement of gradient line x holes and what they do....I could go on and on. Maybe this is all figured into the $200+ cost..........I'd say if he was getting what he paid for then it's a good deal. Who knows. Like pchee used to say bowlers are cheap!

Here is my driller and he is a pro. Rob Bailey's Pro Shop I've been going to him for 25+ years. I receive decent pricing and the best service available anywhere....does everyone else? I'd go to him no matter what the cost.

Trimman2 wrote on 1/20/2011 6:12 AM:If you 2 had done your research you would've noticed on the internet price ranges for this series of balls range from $100-$130. Now I doubt that this pro shop paid more than $130 for that ball, remember I have bought directly from Visionary from the test staff membership, so have you Scott. There is no way that price is justifiable. Can you 2 actually say that would pay that price for that ball? I doubt it very seriously.

Yes, I'm not from that area, but I know what the pro shop I go to sells his mid line for and that price is ridiculous. I can walk out of my pro shop with a high end ball for less than that.

Scott

mab · « **Reply #30 on:** January 20, 2011, 01:33:34 PM »

Let me clear something up. There is just one shop in the area that stocks Visionary and has all of them available that is the shop that I mentioned in my previous post will I go there Hell No. Am I stupid Hell No. I purchase a ball on line and take it to my driller in Aurora who has drilled all of my equipment for years,knows my game,does all my resurfacing and adjustments perfectly. His listed prices are actually below average for around here which I get a handsome discount. I was merely looking at the subject matter in this thread and comenting on my experience is in this area. I know that there is some issue that has popped up with the sales person and Rich and Rich will not carry the Visionary line due to that. It's his shop and he has the say as to what will be on the shelf. Besides all 80% of the bowlers want is hook in a box thats their choice and thats what sells then that is what gets on the shelf regardless. If the pricing keeps going up look at the MSRP's of any manufacturer today and it's out of line and unexceptable we all know it. Thats where the schnooks of the retail world get their out of line ideas anyway.

One of these days I'm going to put it all together and roll a 300 game

Edited by mab on 1/20/2011 at 2:46 PM

Author Topic: Spartan and Crossover (Read 6487 times)

golfnutFL

Spartan and Crossover

scotts33

Re: Spartan and Crossover

golfnutFL

Re: Spartan and Crossover

getuaload

Re: Spartan and Crossover

VBPadvertising

Re: Spartan and Crossover

golfnutFL

Re: Spartan and Crossover

mab

Re: Spartan and Crossover

gsback

Re: Spartan and Crossover

Trimman2

Re: Spartan and Crossover

getuaload

Re: Spartan and Crossover

charlest

Re: Spartan and Crossover

scotts33

Re: Spartan and Crossover

VBPadvertising

Re: Spartan and Crossover

Trimman2

Re: Spartan and Crossover

scotts33

Re: Spartan and Crossover

mab

Re: Spartan and Crossover