Triggerman,   Love my Ogre, drilled pin under ring, 4 1/2 from PAP(also 5 over 1 up) and cg kicked right, and small dia weight hole 2 inches down from PAP on VAL. Like throwing it so much I haven't been throwing my NoMercy combo that I think is the best look I have had in a long time. My surface is at 500, but with my higher speed dominate vs my 300 rev, this works great on the oil line edge. Ball still has great clean look through heads and still backends for a ball at this surface. All of this aside, when you get to the Nationals and see Frankie May at the Visionary booth, I know he will suggest a strong layout on the Immortal solid for you. I've got a buddy who throws plastic on all the local house shots that has slower speed and a lot of revs. He went two weeks ago, asked Frankie, punched him up a leverage pin Immortal solid with cg out and a weight hole down. He wishes that he would have taken the cover down to 500, couldn't get the movement he would have liked, but when he got to the head pin it blew the racks. He also shot well with it at the 40 framer. Loves the ball. Said they were slick this year. He normally swings the lane or plays deep inside line, but played a small belly to ten and in this year at Nationals. Had a pin up Vapor that normally works on deep tight shot, that wouldn't wrinkle, so used the Immortal up the outside. Hope this helps, I go in April, plan on taking Ogre, Special Agent, Big Block Diesel. Al