BallReviews

General Category => Youth Bowling => Topic started by: TheDude on September 04, 2004, 12:04:44 PM

Title: Gambling...
Post by: TheDude on September 04, 2004, 12:04:44 PM
as clearly stated gambling is not allowed in youth bowling. But admit it! we've probably all played friends for drinks(cokes hopefully if you are not legal age in your region), and do you see that as gambling?

yes, or no, and why?
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Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shop
Montreal, Quebec.
Title: Re: Gambling...
Post by: dirtbikebowler on September 04, 2004, 09:49:36 PM
no i see that as just messing around to see who can beat who.

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Tom Kelleys Pro Shop
Title: Re: Gambling...
Post by: stanski on September 04, 2004, 10:27:30 PM
gambling is also illegal in most states, yet adult leagues still allow gambling... don't forget that!
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stanski
Title: Re: Gambling...
Post by: JOE FALCO on September 04, 2004, 10:38:40 PM
GAMBLING: to stake or risk money in the hope of great gain ... RISK: to expose to the chance of loss ..

My interpretation is: If you are using excess money to WAGER then there is NO RISK .. so it is not GAMBLING! Explain EXCESS MONEY .. I would say money that is not REQUIRED to pay for living EXPENSES.
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Hit them light and watch them fight
      J O E - F A L C O

Edited on 9/4/2004 10:31 PM
Title: Re: Gambling...
Post by: TheDude on September 05, 2004, 12:52:16 AM
Interesting insight about that joe.

seems the only acceptable gambling is government run most of the time.

But of course our sport is based primarily on the competition of two gentlemen(or fine ladies), and to make things more interesting introducing wagers.

So even youth now gamble when we bowl. Not for money of course, lol. but i have played a friend for a pair of pants once....and won! LOL got me a nice pair of brand new tommy hilfigure jeans.
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Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shop
Montreal, Quebec.
Title: Re: Gambling...
Post by: TheDude on September 05, 2004, 04:40:28 AM
I am no longer under YABA rules. I bowl in canada so now the CTF rules apply(which mirror the old yaba and abc/wibc rules)

but i think the exact standard is anything else than 50$.
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Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shop
Montreal, Quebec.
Title: Re: Gambling...
Post by: MTFD24 on September 05, 2004, 04:48:55 AM
In New York state, high school bowlers may not even participate in "Cosmic or Moonlight" bowling where any prizes are distributed. They are not allowed to even "substitute" in a league where prize funds are distributed (other than scholarships).

Two seasons past, a high school bowler was "banished" when it was found that he had "subbed" one week on his fathers team. Even though he was not accepting any monies, just his participation one time in that league made him ineligible for the remainder of his Senior year.

Of course I have seen quite a few "side bets" between high school bowlers while following my 2 sons. Mostly for a soda, or such, between friends, to "enhance the competition"
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The Older We Get, The Better We Were
www.MTFD.com - a NY State Vol. Fire Department
www.BowlWNY.com - local & national stories by Joe Ciccone
http://www.FDracing.com The worlds fastest firemen in the origional Xtreme Games
24 is not my age, IQ, or bowling average, but my firematic number, at least I think that what it is
Title: Re: Gambling...
Post by: tourpower on September 05, 2004, 10:09:11 AM
If it is true that we can not compete for anything else but Scholarship money then how does Pepsi give you like $500 for a free trip to Gold if you win. They don't even ask how much it is they just send you what they think it is going to be in a check. That should be illegel then. Just wondering????
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Josh (Spanky) Blanchard
Can't stop the 909
Title: Re: Gambling...
Post by: ThongPrincess on September 05, 2004, 06:02:18 PM
MTFD24, that is why YABA rules are so strict about youth not bowling for any monetary awards.  Their goal is to protect the youths' amature status for eligibility in all sports programs.

YABA bowlers caught subbing or pacing in a league where cash awards are given, can be suspended permamently from YABA.  Quite a few years ago, we had several juniors lose YABA status for bowling pot games with the adults.
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Age is only a state of mind.  I lost mine years ago, I will always be young
Title: Re: Gambling...
Post by: TheDude on September 05, 2004, 09:22:37 PM
This is getting interesting replies from the adults as well so i'm gonna move it into the misc forum as well.
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Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shop
Montreal, Quebec.
Title: Re: Gambling...
Post by: Hammer3003 on September 06, 2004, 12:52:48 AM
I have bet for more.
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Bowl To Win!!!
Title: Re: Gambling...
Post by: Lane1fanatic on September 06, 2004, 01:32:49 PM
I think this is a great discussion. To me, I believe all bowling in competition is gambling. Your putting money up in a tournament for a cash prize. YABA should just accept that fact and change there rules. Again, my opinion.

Steven
Title: Re: Gambling...
Post by: seadrive on September 06, 2004, 01:48:55 PM
Since "youth bowlers" (why isn't it "young bowlers"?) already bowl for monetary gain (am I the only one who sees the word "money" in "scholarship money"?), it is the height of hypocrisy for anyone to ban a kid from YABA competition because he bowled in a league that pays you now, rather than later.
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seadrive
Cogito ergo bowl
Title: Re: Gambling...
Post by: ThongPrincess on September 06, 2004, 04:24:45 PM
Seadive, scholarship money generally goes directly to the school.  When it doesn't, the check is written for reimbursement only after sufficient documentation has been received.  Prize money from a league is just that money that can be used in any way, not just for college.  

If the youth bowler does not go on to college or trade school and does not use the money as directed by the scholarship program, the money goes back to the organization that originally issued the scholarship.
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Age is only a state of mind.  I lost mine years ago, I will always be young
Title: Re: Gambling...
Post by: Silencer on September 07, 2004, 05:43:14 AM
Another problem also is that alot of Youth Bowlers want to stay junior because the fun you have in junior tournaments is like no other, with all your friends your age, traveling all over the country, getting loud at tournaments, just hanging out. The thing is that alot of the people that feel that way might not be going to college so they want cash, but don't want to go adult because they dont want to lose all that fun and being able to bowl with their friends and traveling with them. So then they go adult, don't go to college, all that money they had earned just goes to the state fund where probably all the directors take that money and go on vacation of their own
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And Then...........

I left another 10 pin
Title: Re: Gambling...
Post by: jbtsouthwest on September 07, 2004, 07:43:16 PM
Hello,
  Good topic.  If I were king of the YABA world, I'd suggest allowing you to bowl 2 or 3 adult tournaments a year and still retain junior status, so you can get it out of your system, so to speak, and not make it such a crushing decision wether to go adult or not.
  I believe some of the issues regarding 'gambling' are a bit backwards, but it's important to follow the rules as they are and work in a positive way to change them, rather than to break them, get caught, and ruin the most fun times of your life.
 
  I might add that any reputable director will return unclaimed funds back to that group's fund, and not take it to Fiji with them.  I don't see how anyone doing that would stay in business very long.  Our unclaimed funds help our year-end tournament prize funds, etc, etc...

See you soon at JBTSW events
Jeff
Title: Re: Gambling...
Post by: TheDude on September 07, 2004, 11:05:52 PM
I remember seeing a topic about this where the NCAA has trouble associating with bowling. they don't believe in Pay for play policies. Ex: you get rewarded on how well you play.

anyone remember part of this arguement?
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Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shop
Montreal, Quebec.
Title: Re: Gambling...
Post by: Silencer on September 07, 2004, 11:17:55 PM
Another thing...I think that our scholarship should be able to be used for bowling equipment, travel for bowling, from hotels, to entry fees, to new bowling balls, shoes, and all that good stuff. The better equipment we have these days, the better you can bowl, so therefor you could make more money with the better equipment that you might not be able to afford with cash.
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And Then...........

I left another 10 pin
Title: Re: Gambling...
Post by: Ace18 on September 07, 2004, 11:44:51 PM
Good point about  jrs being allowed to bowl several adult tourney's per year, JBT. Kind of like golf, high school kids can golf in the US Open, they just have to keep an amateur status. I think it would be great if this was possible, they could even reward you in scholorship instead of cash like the adults, that way you would get a taste of adult bowling before you would have to make up your mind. But in all reality, it would be very hard to regulate these rules, but who knows, maybe someday.
Title: Re: Gambling...
Post by: TwoFourEightNineNine on September 08, 2004, 04:17:44 AM
Jeff, it would be a wonderful idea to come up with something similar to the PBA allowing amateurs to bowl in their regionals as a guest (you know... you bowl so many events as a guest, and have to get a card... eventually). However, with so many YABA members, despite the decline in membership, it would almost be impossible to track down who bowls what ABC/WIBC event.

Anyway, to pass on the word... the way I understand it, you can send in the petition/letter to the PBA saying that you want to have the commissioner's exemption to a particular event, despite being a YABA member. It doesn't say anything about you having to be an ABC/WIBC member at all, anywhere on the entry form. Some of you guys might wanna give it a try. If someone can prove me wrong, please do.

I've seen kids lie about their real names at a Saturday bonanza scratch tournament and cash, and nobody knows about it. I don't want to say names because it's not my job to say, "Hey man i'm gonna report you and you lose your eligibility."
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-Jeremy Vitug
Title: Re: Gambling...
Post by: tourpower on September 08, 2004, 11:15:35 PM
I agree with alot of you guys on this subject. Why can golf or other sports play in a professional tournament and just decline the money. This would be ideal or Jr. Bowlers to see if they want to go from Jrs. to the PBA region tour. Otherwise you don't know if you are making a mistake by going adult. Bowling is different in every way from other sports. It just isn't recognized like other sports. I mean how hard it is to sit in a car for 3 hours going around and around and around..... I get millions to do that, but to bowl you get *^%$.
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Josh (Spanky) Blanchard
Can't stop the 909
Title: Re: Gambling...
Post by: Silencer on September 09, 2004, 12:16:08 AM
Well remember Josh, despite bowling that might take more skill then racing around a track which I don't think should be considered a sport..racing that is..because your not doing anything athletic, but they get paid so much is due to the life risk, look how many people have died or been seriously hurt
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And Then...........

I left another 10 pin