Post by: onerevaway on July 27, 2006, 04:15:55 PM
Post by: TWOHAND834 on July 28, 2006, 12:19:39 AM
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Steven Vance
Former Pro Shop Operator
If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!
Post by: onerevaway on July 28, 2006, 12:20:20 AM
Post by: TWOHAND834 on July 28, 2006, 12:25:18 AM
--------------------
Steven Vance
Former Pro Shop Operator
If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!
Post by: monstercrank on July 28, 2006, 12:26:23 AM
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While interviewing an anonymous U.S. Special Forces Sniper on his skills, a Reuters News agent asked the soldier what he felt when shooting members of Al Qaeda in Afghanistan and Iraq. The soldier shrugged and replied "Recoil".
---------------------------------
If guns kill people then spoons made Rosie O'Donnell fat!
-----------------------------
Some people are like Slinkies....
Not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile
to your face... when you push one down a flight of stairs.
Post by: spinitmopper on July 28, 2006, 12:27:07 AM
Post by: fins4ever88 on July 28, 2006, 12:30:02 AM
quote:
I know that but he didnt make cut what is there to show of him he didnt do good at all thats what im saying!!
He might not have done well by your standards, but I think he did fairly well. He placed in the top 300 in the nation on the harder conditions to bowl on. I know someone and respect him as a good bowler from a different house who went to JOG and ended up around 400, and he was pleased with himself.
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www.bowlingballexchange.com
Saturday Youth League
http://bowlingtracker.no-ip.org:2222/personalstats/ViewStats.asp?PS_LeagueID=6610
Post by: ebolanebowler on July 28, 2006, 01:04:41 AM
Post by: vagabond on July 28, 2006, 01:04:44 AM
If they choose to talk about local house bowlers compared to pros and the huge difference in talent and room for error on lane conditions it can show the disparity between the apparent king of house bowlers and what real bowling is like.
However the chances of the commentary being effective at revealing the differnces are very slim.
Rob
Post by: pointless_3 on July 28, 2006, 03:04:37 AM
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- Richard (Ricky) Brown
When do I get a nickname?
Post by: leftehh- LG on July 28, 2006, 03:26:05 AM
quote:
I know that but he didnt make cut what is there to show of him he didnt do good at all thats what im saying!!
umm placing around 280th isnt that bad..
Oh and they interviewed Steven Black and OG about mushtare of how he is fake and didnt shoot 900.
--------------------
Andy "LG" Reynoso
"Bowl to win"
Edited on 7/28/2006 3:25 AM
Edited on 7/28/2006 3:25 AM
Post by: njv29 on July 28, 2006, 10:45:26 AM
Post by: Hogsharley on July 28, 2006, 10:51:51 AM
quote:
umm placing around 280th isnt that bad..
Oh and they interviewed Steven Black and OG about mushtare of how he is fake and didnt shoot 900.
--------------------
Andy "LG" Reynoso
"Bowl to win"
Edited on 7/28/2006 3:25 AM
Edited on 7/28/2006 3:25 AM
For someone that claims he has bowled 3 perfect series in the time span of 6 months, it really isn't that good. There are 279 bowlers that have never bowled a 900 that did better and most of them had no experience with sport conditions either.
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3 holes of fun!!
Post by: Righty-Tighty on July 28, 2006, 10:52:51 AM
quote:quote:
umm placing around 280th isnt that bad..
Oh and they interviewed Steven Black and OG about mushtare of how he is fake and didnt shoot 900.
--------------------
Andy "LG" Reynoso
"Bowl to win"
Edited on 7/28/2006 3:25 AM
Edited on 7/28/2006 3:25 AM
My first time ever bowling on a sport shot, I shot 648 which is decent IMO.
For someone that claims he has bowled 3 perfect series in the time span of 6 months, it really isn't that good. There are 279 bowlers that have never bowled a 900 that did better and most of them had no experience with sport conditions either.
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3 holes of fun!!
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 28, 2006, 11:03:13 AM
But I believe they were suppossed to both film him there under a difficult condtition...and also on a wide open condition (the type 900s are thrown on).
If they are only trying to show him on one type of condition which he has not prepared himself properly for....and only been on (I believe once) then it is not as balanced a presentation as it should be.
I wonder what has happened to the planned match against a pro on his home condition?
Regards,
Lucklefty
PS anyone who has dealt with the news media knows that if they want to have an agenda or take a story in a certain direction they can! On any topic.
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: backupball on July 28, 2006, 11:07:57 AM
Post by: Jorge300 on July 28, 2006, 11:15:38 AM
quote:quote:
I know that but he didnt make cut what is there to show of him he didnt do good at all thats what im saying!!
He might not have done well by your standards, but I think he did fairly well. He placed in the top 300 in the nation on the harder conditions to bowl on. I know someone and respect him as a good bowler from a different house who went to JOG and ended up around 400, and he was pleased with himself.
--------------------
www.bowlingballexchange.com
Saturday Youth League
http://bowlingtracker.no-ip.org:2222/personalstats/ViewStats.asp?PS_LeagueID=6610
Fins, your friend should feel proud, but he also hasn't claimed to have shot 5 900 serie either. Based on the skill he has "shown" and his quotes to the media, this was a disappointing performance for Robert. Think of Tiger Woods at 17. If he missed the cut in the Amatuer Championship, would it be considered good? Even if he beat 400-500+ other people, no. And Musthare has done more in bowling then Tiger did in golf at this age. Did I expect him to win, no, Tiger doesn't win every tournament, but he should have made the cut, anything less is a failure.
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Jorge300
"Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!!"
Post by: Hogsharley on July 28, 2006, 11:20:20 AM
quote:
Fins, your friend should feel proud, but he also hasn't claimed to have shot 5 900 serie either. Based on the skill he has "shown" and his quotes to the media, this was a disappointing performance for Robert. Think of Tiger Woods at 17. If he missed the cut in the Amatuer Championship, would it be considered good? Even if he beat 400-500+ other people, no. And Musthare has done more in bowling then Tiger did in golf at this age. Did I expect him to win, no, Tiger doesn't win every tournament, but he should have made the cut, anything less is a failure.
I could'nt have said it any better!
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3 holes of fun!!
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 28, 2006, 11:41:21 AM
I also think I remember him missing a lot of cuts in pro tournaments while an amateur.
Look at him now!
It also seems that while in high school college...Ben Crenshaw had an incredible run in pro tournaments including the US open(I saw him there I believe like the week of his high school graduation). His career was wonderful but if we were to measure by performances at upper level tournaments while young...Crenshaw would have been picked to be the ONE!
Instead Tiger!
None of these things point to predictability of future stardom, ability to shatter records on easy conditions or anything. They are each sort of what they are! Their own niche.
No one right now can tell me that Michelle Wie could end up the greatest woman golfer of all time ...she may be but she MAY never become a great winner! It is hard to know! There is a young woman named Aree Song in golf...led the Nabisco Championship after 3 rounds when 18...choked and has hardly contended since! While in the ages of 15 thru 18 she had actually been in contention several times in big pro events.
Would anyone be able to predict that every time he got in contention that Sergio Garcia would be more likely to go backwards in an event than five years ago when he played head to head with Tiger at the PGA and almost battled to a standstill.
Champion, tough condition bowler, easy condition bowler, record setter. All different types of accomplishments and mind sets! A great example yesterday.
Corey Pavin sets all time PGA 9 hole record score 26 for 9. Of all the players on the PGA tour...who would currently pick him to do this now...in the twilight of his career!
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: onerevaway on July 28, 2006, 03:01:38 PM
Post by: Rileybowler on July 28, 2006, 07:44:26 PM
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Carl
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 28, 2006, 10:59:45 PM
THat way you can make sure all that all the opinions you receive on the subject are the same! "THE earth is FLAT!" These would be words that if you lived in the 1400s would have been music to your ears... EVERYONE KNEW those words were correct!
A serious question for those who don't have me on ignore...
Of the top 50 placers on the men's side in Junior gold. How many of them was it there 1st Junior gold competition? Also if it was...were they involved in a sport shot league? I'm really serious...it would be an interesting fact to know.
Was it the winner's O'grady's first time??? Of the top 20...were there ANY who hadn't competed multiple times?
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: fins4ever88 on July 29, 2006, 12:22:29 AM
quote:
well i know ronnie made the team his first year back in dallas, and last year was farish's first year and he made the team...so yes there are people that show up their first year.
council
p.s. and im sure there is more
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so-cal kid at heart always
06-07 lindenwood lions
But what Lefty was asking further is if they who made the team their first year played in a sport shot league before. It may be a lie, but Mushtare did mention this is one of the first times he's bowled a sport shot tournament.
People like HXC Bowler need to stay out of topics like these. We're trying to have a civilized discussion, and you are just coming in here bashing someone just because he doesn't completely hate Mushtare.
Oh, and Jorge300 DID compare Mushtare's (non)achievements to Tiger Woods (good rebuttal by the way there Jorge. It's nice to see some people can post with a different opinion and not completely attack the original poster.)
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www.bowlingballexchange.com
Saturday Youth League
http://bowlingtracker.no-ip.org:2222/personalstats/ViewStats.asp?PS_LeagueID=6610
Post by: Xfest on July 29, 2006, 12:31:27 AM
who would waste that much time trying to defend someone?
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ÈĻ Arsenèl
Track Mean Machine (Heavy)
Lane #1 Dirty Bomb (Med-Heavy)
Track Machine (Medium)
Brunswick Original Inferno (Light-Med)
Track Desert Heat (Light)
Brunswick Ambush (Spare)
I throw it all, just give me a ball, I'll throw it. =]
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 29, 2006, 08:46:02 AM
I understand the mindset of record setting because as a young adult I pursued a similar line in golf when I already had realized I could not make the pro tour(luckily I had witnesses to the few things I did). I decided or the particular set of skills I had decided for me that low scoring on medium level difficulty courses was my thing. So I pursued that for a few years. Unfortunately there was already Tom Doty! Also there was no money in it!
I would like to have his high scoring league tearing ability but many who know me from this site know a 700 is a stretch for me! However, I love watching an 800 or a 300 unfold!
Again...the NEXT level of competition is hard. It doesn't matter if it from league to SPORT or top amateur to pro whatever...the next level in any endeavor is HARD!
Whether going from wide open league shot to a very difficult sport shot tourney.
Or from Amateur to pro tour success or from world amateur competitions to pro...it is hard!
Good GOD the winning average in this Junior Gold thing was ? 21X. This is a hard shot! Only 29 guys over 200? I saw some of these bowlers from a distance and some were simply fantastic...Comn.. IT is the NEXT level of competition...and in fact the level of difficulty may be slightly higher than the pro tour shots of last year.
I don't think anyone thinks the step from their league shot to a sport condition is not significant! Do they? From the scores I would guess that the shot is harder than the pro tour. Because if based on what I saw...a lot of these kids could average over 200 on pro tour shots. Way over?...no...but over 29 of them I would think yes. Over 210 week after week...probably not.
Bolo above...I just talked to some bowlers last week who think the world of you and your game! Kudos on your great win last year. It is a bite when the media wants to interview someone that you are beating that week and would have wupped the year before too! I've been there!
However based on the interviews I heard a piece of and the intent of the media in this Outside the Lines segment...I'm sure you will NOT want to be interviewed and featured in this type of TV segment. Some may even feel sorry Robert Mushtare after, others will feel he is getting what is coming too him(for their belief he cheated), others will cheer his fate even if he didn't cheat because of their belief that the rules were bad(prebowling), others will cheer his fate because he hurt the sport of bowling by making the ultimate goal look too easy.
Whatever...Bolo...at this time I think you'd rather be you...and I'd rather be me!
I've already ceded that the players that beat Robert Mushtare on the Junior Gold shot are better than Robert Mushtare on the junior gold shot! NOW. I again don't cede that 250 or 350 of them can beat him on a house shot. I believe few!
At a seminar this weekend Richie Sposato of Lane #1 made the statement that there should be a reward for a powerful release in bowling. Robert Mushtare has a marvelous powerful release and free swing(Rod Ross coach of team USA agrees). We have a player very similar to him in free swing and ball roll in our area. He had maybe 20 800s one year across the 5 leagues he is in. He is well noted for struggling on oily and sport shots.
Like many free swingers and high scorers...he has his place to stand! After several YEARS of struggling on these shots and being older than Robert Mushtare he is starting to move up on these tighter tougher scoring shots. This several year struggle on tough conditions does not take away the validity of his tremendous ability to ROCK the RACK on league shots!
Often when watching this local star I've felt if only a little calmer he could have scored a little higher even in some of these great sets! But a free swing and powerful ball does not mean you don't get jumpy after 20 in a row!
Anyway...I'm sure that by now Robert Mushtare wishes he had a 879, an 868, and his sanctioned 859 from regular league...ONLY. Ask yourself...If you were him and did what he said...how would you feel right now? Would you like to be him?
REgards,
Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: Jorge300 on July 29, 2006, 09:46:53 AM
quote:
At a seminar this weekend Richie Sposato of Lane #1 made the statement that there should be a reward for a powerful release in bowling. Robert Mushtare has a marvelous powerful release and free swing(Rod Ross coach of team USA agrees). We have a player very similar to him in free swing and ball roll in our area. He had maybe 20 800s one year across the 5 leagues he is in. He is well noted for struggling on oily and sport shots.
Like many free swingers and high scorers...he has his place to stand! After several YEARS of struggling on these shots and being older than Robert Mushtare he is starting to move up on these tighter tougher scoring shots. This several year struggle on tough conditions does not take away the validity of his tremendous ability to ROCK the RACK on league shots!
Lefty, what about accuracy? Shouldn't that be the what you get rewarded for? The ability to hit your mark time after time after time. I will be the first to admit I am not the best at that. I need to create a little area and am usually lucky enough to do so. A powerful release is a gift and one that shouldn't taken lightly. But without accuracy, well i guess you wind up in 281st place. There have been many posts on here about Robert's lack of accuracy at JOG, including spare shooting accuracy. Now you can make excuses like it was his first time, even though in an interview he stated he was practicing on these types of shots. But, if we put the same emphasis on shot making as we do on how many boards we can get the ball to hook, maybe people like Robert could have done better.
As far as my comparison of Robert and Tiger. Different sports, yes. But at the same age, if Robert's scores are to be believed, the same sport changing talent. And as far as Tiger missing a US Open cut at 17, would be a fair comparison if Robert was trying to make a PBA cut. But not for JOG. Sorry Lefty, I guess you are fresh out of excuses as to why Robert's performance shouln't be looked at for what it really was, a big disappointment.
--------------------
Jorge300
"Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!!"
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 29, 2006, 10:15:16 AM
Then he dropped out of Stanford.. New story. 1997 Masters!
Richie Sposato's point was that the best combination is a strong release AND accuracy! He said that is the top Pro tour guys. He felt that many of the sport shots reward primarily accuracy over a strong release A style he called...the grinders!( of course Richie showed us how a trick drilling on a very touchy shot could improve his scoring by about 60 pins a game for a few games).
Not being a grinder at all in golf (mediocre half wedge game(why I never could even thinking of attaining pro tour level)). I understand this ability to score well in your wheelhouse while maybe never really having it on the tough conditions. This is why I continue to emphasize the disconnect between the ability to tear up easy conditions and the ability to "grind it out". I know they are different in golf...and I know they are different in bowling! I have been on both sides in the different sports!
In addition the mentality of record breaking is different than the mentality for winning, and different than the mentality of grinding for a nice finish! Two days ago we had a noted grinder go into record breaking mode(Corey Pavin) and then set his thinking at the half way mark to regress to his mean! Non recordbreaking thinking!
While in bowling I am more of a grinder(not a really good one) I would prefer to be a league phenom! It's every week...it's fun...there are brackets!
I am working on my release right now to see if I can turn the page!
REgards,
Luckylefty
PS at one time I was going to put out a game plan for throwing records in bowling(almost the same as my game plan for record breaking in golf)...but as there has been so much venom at the art of recordbreaking on easy conditions maybe now is a bad time! Note this is a regime much different than setting out to be on Team USA!
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 29, 2006, 10:58:10 AM
You are right in a way...the increase in difficulty for Robert Mushtare was higher!
At no point am I saying Robert Mushtare is going to be better in bowling than Tiger is in golf. I have no idea! I've made the point that the step up at each level in any sport is tough to predict!
Again my point is simply this. Bowling great on easy conditions has little relationship to bowling great on difficult condtions! Record breaking for a single round or set is an art in itself! Golfing great on medium friendly conditions has little relationship to contending on a US open course. I know!
We all know bowlers who have shot 800s one night in league and then shot 520 or less on sport conditions the next morning! And yet a guy from the same league the night before who shot 595 shoots 610 on the sport shot! Where is the connect?
REGards,
Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: justanotherlefty805 on July 29, 2006, 04:45:09 PM
--------------------
Mike Dole
LU 06-07
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 29, 2006, 08:18:30 PM
Again...professional or amateur. For a while Tiger Woods failed miserably compared to some other amateur phenom predecessors who had tried the pro tour and done admirably. It was for him...the next step up!
Robert Mushtare struggled mightily in the next step up. Amateur or professional..with only 29 guys plus...the shot had to be hard for someone there!
I am making no prediction where I think he will go ultimately...except he like other 800 shooters who struggle on sport patterns will probably get better with experience, drilling knowledge and persistency!
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: Xfest on July 29, 2006, 09:56:38 PM
LuckyLefty - you have to be a disguise of Robert Mushtare for all the shi-t you defend him for.
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ÈĻ Arsenèl
Track Mean Machine (Heavy)
Lane #1 Dirty Bomb (Med-Heavy)
Track Machine (Medium)
Brunswick Original Inferno (Light-Med)
Track Desert Heat (Light)
Brunswick Ambush (Spare)
I throw it all, just give me a ball, I'll throw it. =]
Post by: Mrtaz2u300 on July 29, 2006, 11:46:58 PM
As for the Robby revs television event of the summer, or so it seems, i'm going to choose to not be a participant of the debacle that ESPN is likely to make of it. ESPN has never shown bowling in even a remotely respectable fashion (IE, bowling with the stars-esque show last year). They just think its a joke and not a reputable sport, so why watch them make a debauchery out of it? Not to mention, i'd rather watch an "outside the lines" on a bowler who actually deserves to be on there. Whether he shot two 900's or not, whether they were true 900's or not, and whether he made cut or not at junior gold this year is irrelavant to the situation. Why not put some of the nations BEST youth bowlers on there. I'm sure guys like Bolo, OG, Ronnie Sparks, and the boys from PA would be more than willing to give some advice on the game. And at least coming from them, you might learn something about the game we all have come to love.
TGP, Bolo, and a select others, i await to hear your responses to this.
P.S. My name is Brandon Tarabek and i'm from Grand Rapids, MI... i hate how people hide behind user names to avoid criticism.
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I Bowl to win...
Edited on 7/29/2006 11:43 PM
Post by: J_L_B on July 30, 2006, 01:48:50 AM
This guy has only one place where he claims to have bowled high scores. If he had bowled several leagues in his area and averaged 240+ in all of them, that would be something, but once again he ONLY has scores out of his home house.
They way he showed up out of virtually nowhere with 3 900s is the reason no one believes any of it.
PS - Using the Tiger analogy is not acceptable. Tiger has been a golf prodigy since he was a little kid, appearing on talk shows and winning at every level of competition. If this guy was as good as he and his daddy think he is, he would have done SOMETHING, ANYTHING before now.
--------------------
Columbia Regional Staff 04-06
2003 PBA West Region Rookie of the Year
"You don't score, until you score......"
Post by: tgp3 on July 30, 2006, 07:54:34 AM
Would a piece on Junior Gold, and its success stories be nice? Absolutly. JG is the biggest, and more than likely most prestigious jr. tournament in the country. I would love to see it covered better by newspapers/TV. I think the TV deal for the Teen Masters here in a couple of weeks is a HUGE step in the right direction for bowling as a whole...and would love to eventually see that sort of thing for junior gold as well.
Take Care
tgp
Post by: onerevaway on July 30, 2006, 09:01:10 AM
Post by: onerevaway on July 30, 2006, 09:05:43 AM
Post by: MI 2 AZ on July 30, 2006, 09:08:26 AM
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________________________________________
I am the SGT Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing! I see nothing! NOTHING!"
_________________________________________
I just want 2C was'zzub.
Post by: onerevaway on July 30, 2006, 09:09:02 AM
Post by: DP3 on July 30, 2006, 09:21:03 AM
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- DP3
Hoss Central Inc.
Respect the Game
Post by: Duke of Earl on July 30, 2006, 10:36:21 AM
Post by: Jorge300 on July 30, 2006, 12:04:53 PM
Now that your boy Musthare isn't bowling Tim Mack, your bet is a push and you have little left in your arsenal. Tim Mack when asked directly if Musthare did it, he said "No." He bowled with him, he has won titles and shot 300's on every contintent except Antartica, I believe. Are you still going to claim that you know him better? Musthare was willing to take a polygraph test, yet his father says no. Why? "He has nothing to gain and everything to lose", the only thing he can lose is if he lied. Not a very convincing statement. And lastly, the statement of the year - " I know I did it and I don't need 100 witnesses to prove it." This is the exact issue, he knows it, and he makes a comment like that. That is egotistical, self-centered, and totally tasteless to say that on front of the world. If you had any doubts of the validity of these scores, this did nothing to remove them and did more to add to the doubts. I can't wait to see how you defend him now.
--------------------
Jorge300
"Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!!"
Post by: Strapper_Squared on July 30, 2006, 12:42:38 PM
quote:
For the final time lefty. Tiger did his accomplishments in front of people at the SCHEDULED TIME! Mushtare did his in a prebowl with no witnesses and no compitition.
But then again, Tiger hasn't been taught to anticipate hitting a shot in the rough and adjust prior to swinging...but on the other hand, mustard knows he would leave a 10 pin prior to throwing the ball and can adjust. You just can't compete with the supernatural abilities
.--------------------
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
"Chuck Norris doesn't say "who's your daddy", because he knows the answer."
-borrowed from ChuckNorrisFacts.com (http://"http://www.chucknorrisfacts.com")
Post by: Rileybowler on July 30, 2006, 12:55:30 PM
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Carl
Post by: And1_headach on July 30, 2006, 01:15:56 PM
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MESSING AROUND IN PRACTICE, IS ONLY PRACTICING BAD HABITS!
Post by: Bek on July 30, 2006, 01:39:14 PM
Both airings of the show will have the same thing it's just later for lazy bums that don't want to get up at the butt-crack of dawn
Post by: leftehh- LG on July 30, 2006, 02:29:56 PM
--------------------
Andy "LG" Reynoso
"Bowl to win"
Post by: MI 2 AZ on July 30, 2006, 05:21:56 PM
quote:
What would be even better would be to have his FATHER take one also.
I thought I read or heard somewhere that his father was not present at any of the 900's?
quote:
and Robert's mother stated it was because of the color of their skin.
Huh?
I still would like to see some statements from impartial witnesses on these 900's, even the practise ones. With five, you would think there would be some.
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________________________________________
I am the SGT Schultz of bowling.
"I know nothing! I see nothing! NOTHING!"
_________________________________________
I just want 2C was'zzub.
Post by: Mrtaz2u300 on July 30, 2006, 06:07:14 PM
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I Bowl to win...
Post by: Nails on July 30, 2006, 06:48:01 PM
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Telling it like it is.
Post by: iron chariots 02 on July 30, 2006, 07:04:41 PM
it would very suspect if someone who claims to have bowled five
900 series has only one or two 300 games while he had everyone
watching him during a normal league setting. what are the odds that
if you start of with a 300 game that you are more likely to bowl two
more than not?
the ball companies usually jump at the chance to place an ad with someone
who shot a legit 900 series with their ball but i can't recall seeing one
with mushtare in it, much less two. i wonder why...........
his father looks like a bigger fool than mushtare because during the
interview he said that he told his son how this would look to everyone
else but he went through the trouble to threaten a lawsuit aganst the
usbc. if i had a chance to take a lie detector test on national tv to
clear my name i would jump at the chance just to make everyone who
called me a liar eat crow but if i knew that I had lied........
i throw both of them in the same pile of trash that barry bonds
and mark magwire are in. i guess when you don't try to make up rules
covering every possible scenario because you expect people to have
some integrity. if mushtare had any decency he would give back any
awards that he got from this and just quietly fade away.
i'm pretty sure mushtare and his father didn't count on this getting
this much attention in the beginning. this kind of reminds me of the
lady who found a severed finger in her chili but was later convicted
of fraud for putting planting it in the bowl of chili.
one final thought...... maybe he bowls in a nine pin no tap league.
Post by: Bluff on July 30, 2006, 07:08:39 PM
quote:
Mustare would beat most of the guys on here that slag him off .. id pay money to see that on ESPN. lol
--------------------
Its all about the coconut.
www.rpsbowling.com - Get a Grip
Mustard vs The World
or
World Series of Mustard.
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Looser have to paid for balls. Bolwers keep buying! Yea I got Balls!!!
Post by: OGrady on July 30, 2006, 09:33:27 PM
I would like for good things to come from the show, but with all the televised negativity from fellow junior bowlers, how can anyone look at bowling and gain respect for it???? This show means a bit more than proving if Mushtare rolled the 900s. It was the groundwork of advancement for bowling becoming a bigger sport.
Please keep the hatred to a minimum.
Matthew O'Grady
Jr. Team USA 2006/2007
William Paterson University
--------------------
OG
David Knight Sr. @ Joe's Pro Shop 7550 City AVe. Philadelphia, PA
Ebonite, Hammer, and RotoGrip baby!
www.bowlersunited.com/
www.Buddiesproshop.com/
Edited on 7/31/2006 5:18 AM
Edited on 7/31/2006 5:25 AM
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 30, 2006, 10:11:27 PM
and I had discussed this issue in the past(after the first one and the single practice one) the posts are here to see.
He has again made some very mature comments and with his stature and championships recently as a bowler...he frankly doesn't have to be. I commend him as a champion and class individual. Something that unfortunately does not apply to some of the other posters here!
I saw the segment on outside the lines and thought I'd spend a day with the family bowling and visiting friends and thinking about the short piece the facts presented and the balance of the piece.
I am not Robert Mushtare...I've put a post maybe here or somewhere else where I talk about the difference between being a tournament champion and the different set of abilities of the record setter. I know of this because I pursued a course of seeking records as a young adult in golf while playing moderate level courses while not really being capable of advancing to a successful professional level of play. (I couldn't grind it out on tough courses but I could rip the guts out of more moderate condition).
I understand both sets of abilities and admire the DIFFERENT set of skills that allow one to achieve in either arena! I'm a big fan of anyone who breaks records or wins championships! I understand the disappointment of others that these events were not witnessed in completion by a large crowd.
ONe was accompanied by a friend(the 3rd and 2nd sanctioned one). One was partially witnessed by a Colonel from the Fort Drum base(2nd and first sanctioned) And I'm not sure if the first one was witnessed.
As to other 300s and 800s if I have heard it right....Robert Mushtare had an 859 sometime slightly before this set of 900s in regular league and maybe 5 800s lower than that...in the same house. If I heard it right he had 10 300s all starting in the past year (also the 800s)before this streak of 900s.
I will not be able to finish this tonight...but the piece was more balanced than I expected...I did not interpert Tim Mack's statements referred to above as being as negative as related above. I may listen to the tape again.
One thing I want to put out there is the statistic.
129, 26 -0s' to 1 against bowling even a SINGLE 900(was stated).
!!! THis is a fascinating statistic and I'd like the assembled group here to think what this is.
I think I know what it is. but.
Is it based on the percentage strike ratio of the general bowling population times 36 times in a row?
IS it based on the percentatge strike ratio of 200 average bowlers times 36 in a row.
Is it based on the percentage strike ratio of 230 average MALE bowlers times 36 in a row occurrences?
Is it based on a 250 average bowler bowling on his home house with no other lane play strike ratio times 36 occurrences in a row?
What does it mean to YOU. And based on this fantastic statistic...realize that it means that ALL 900s before Robert Mushtare are statistically improbable and maybe one won't happen for at least another 3,000,000 years of bowling!
I'll finish tomorrow. Hope that doesn't offend you Machine 1. I have my own business and yes...sometimes I do what I want!
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: Silencer on July 31, 2006, 02:56:30 AM
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And Then...........
I left another 10 pin
J-Rad Lawrence
Post by: pointless_3 on July 31, 2006, 04:18:40 AM
quote:
You have guidelines on what you can and cannot say... You're not the only one I see that has done a 360 on their opinions after they have made Team USA or Jr Team USA.
Don't you mean a 180? 360 would mean they still have the same opinions...
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- Richard (Ricky) Brown
When do I get a nickname?
Post by: Jorge300 on July 31, 2006, 07:31:58 AM
quote:
ONe was accompanied by a friend(the 3rd and 2nd sanctioned one). One was partially witnessed by a Colonel from the Fort Drum base(2nd and first sanctioned) And I'm not sure if the first one was witnessed.
Lefty, these people only sw part of the series, not the whole series. So they cannot attest that he actually rolled 900, maybe a 300 yes, but not a 900.
quote:
One thing I want to put out there is the statistic.
129, 26 -0s' to 1 against bowling even a SINGLE 900(was stated).
!!! THis is a fascinating statistic and I'd like the assembled group here to think what this is.
I think I know what it is. but.
Is it based on the percentage strike ratio of the general bowling population times 36 times in a row?
IS it based on the percentatge strike ratio of 200 average bowlers times 36 in a row.
Is it based on the percentage strike ratio of 230 average MALE bowlers times 36 in a row occurrences?
Is it based on a 250 average bowler bowling on his home house with no other lane play strike ratio times 36 occurrences in a row?
What does it mean to YOU. And based on this fantastic statistic...realize that it means that ALL 900s before Robert Mushtare are statistically improbable and maybe one won't happen for at least another 3,000,000 years of bowling!
Lefty, please rewatch the tape. That statistic for rolling 2 900 series, not one. So you point is flawed, as usual. I knew that the Musthare* supports would take the statistic and claim it was fake. The editor of Bowler's Journal came up with it, a credible magazine. They have no stake in this one way or the other. The only issue is the number of zeros, they said 26, but it has to be 24 or 27. Even if 24 still an outrageous number. And that's just for 2, Robert is claiming 5, I bet no calculator in the world has enough zeros to hold the odds for that. I can't wait unitl lunch so I can see the rest of your post. Still trying to defend him after that show, what a shame. I am glad you must make better business decisions or you won't be in business for long.
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Jorge300
"Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!!"
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 31, 2006, 10:11:08 AM
The 3rd one was shot to my understanding completely while with Jamie Grimm bowling beside during prebowling.
Jorge...I'm surprised but not surprised that you a statistics expert would accept these numbers...without thinking about or challenging the assumptions behind them. (Scratch consecutive comment..thinking 30 years back to statistics....hmmmm)
Who's strike ratio were they using...anyone have the assumptions used in the bowling journal article?
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Edited on 7/31/2006 10:12 AM
Edited on 7/31/2006 10:37 AM
Post by: jrbowler on July 31, 2006, 02:40:22 PM
I believe the kid might or might not have shot only one 900, no more than that. If he did really shoot his 900, it was denied because of a sanctioning problem. So they say at USBC. I wasn't there.
Being a kid, shooting an honor score and it don't count, would get any kid upset. I would be!! So the kid and his family figured a way for him to shoot another one or two on paper so he can get his award. I saw the scorers on the ESPN interview and those are very easy to change. I've done that a few times and had 11 strikes on the scorer and called some people over and I shot the 12th and they were cheering me on thinking I shot a 300. I'll admit there were a couple of times it was a 298 or 299, but they still cheered me on. They didn't pay any attention to me changing the scores. They actually believed I did it. But in reality, it was more like a 222. I'll have to do that one day and post on-line for all to see.
If he really shot the 1st one, I'd be jumping all over USBC saying the "Sanction was in the Mail." "I mailed it on time!!" Then try to fight with USBC and the USPO service to get that one over turned.
Post by: Jorge300 on July 31, 2006, 02:59:50 PM
quote:
I will reply after a little time with my excel spreadsheet later today or tomorrow.
The 3rd one was shot to my understanding completely while with Jamie Grimm bowling beside during prebowling.
Jorge...I'm surprised but not surprised that you a statistics expert would accept these numbers...without thinking about or challenging the assumptions behind them. (Scratch consecutive comment..thinking 30 years back to statistics....hmmmm)
Who's strike ratio were they using...anyone have the assumptions used in the bowling journal article?
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Edited on 7/31/2006 10:12 AM
Edited on 7/31/2006 10:37 AM
You are correct, Jaime Grimm bowled with him for the last one and amazingly, shot his first ever 300 that set too. No one is claiming Jaime wasn't there. What I am saying is Jaime is not an unbiased witnesses. He is his friend and also has a stake in if they were doing something not on the up and up with his own 300. So his testimony alone is not enough evidence that this was done. That would be like asking the guy that drove the getaway car if he saw the robber coming out of the bank.
You are correct, i don't know the assumptions. But using my own and the published ratio of 131,000:1 of rolling a 300 game, my answer for 2 900 series was something like 500 and 27 zeros. And that was just using simple multiplication. So I would assume their is more accurate version of mine.
Now I really can't wait to see what excuse you come up with for him, getting out the spreadsheets and all.
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Jorge300
"Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!!"
Post by: onerevaway on July 31, 2006, 06:10:31 PM
Post by: Xfest on August 01, 2006, 01:24:05 AM
Mushtare is a cheat - did not even come close to hitting them
USBC is just a blow hard - accepting two 900's when no evidence he did it, or no evidence he didn't. Why don't we all just get our own bowling alley, and have our dad put our scores on there for us!
USBC made theirselves look totallY stupid before JOG, interviewing Mushtare. And then when he failed to get in the cut, his name totally vanished.
blah/
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Track Machine (Medium)
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I throw it all, just give me a ball, I'll throw it. =]
Post by: LuckyLefty on August 01, 2006, 12:26:54 PM
Over there I made the comment...forget Mushtare...forget the emotion.
900s are possible in a reasonable time frame for top flite strikers on blended top hats in a reasonable number of sets. Tim Mack and Jeff Carter if they spent much time on these shots could easily achieve multiple 900s on these types of shots!
The fact is the elite strikers(note I did not say bowlers) in the game are not spending much time bowling on these conditions...they are instead spending their time bowling on conditions that will make them money(often tough!).
If they spent their time on these easier conditions bowling with little transition they would have many 900s in their career!
Calculating the odds for the average bowler are absurd...it is NEVER going to happen! Calculating the odds for bowlers who can throw 9+ strikes a game(never happen on pro tour or sport conditions(agreed)) is a more rational and relavent exercise to see if it is possible multiple times!
It is.
Take a look at the numbers. SO many have relied on the statistics to say statistically it could not be done...are looking at a class of bowler that could NEVER do it! The average bowler! NOt even a chance in the next billion years!
See my other post!
REGards,
Luckylefty
PS from what I saw...Steven Black is completely capable of it...just spend more time off tourney conditions and more time on easy conditions! GReat ball!
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: KDawg77 on August 01, 2006, 12:28:41 PM
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That's right. I said it!
Post by: Ragnar on August 01, 2006, 12:29:49 PM
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"I do desire that we may be better strangers." Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
"aroyskrikn zoln dir di oygn fun kop"
Post by: LuckyLefty on August 01, 2006, 12:56:18 PM
That is all I can list, these are strictly statistical numbers and do not speak to the emotions of the bowler!
I wonder if he had 36 in a row in practice...I bet he did...only he would know!
If statistics came true he needed over 90 more sets to statistically have it happen once!
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: spmcgivern on August 01, 2006, 01:16:50 PM
Edited on 8/1/2006 1:13 PM
Post by: Jorge300 on August 01, 2006, 01:25:42 PM
quote:
8/1000 = 1/125.
That is all I can list, these are strictly statistical numbers and do not speak to the emotions of the bowler!
I wonder if he had 36 in a row in practice...I bet he did...only he would know!
If statistics came true he needed over 90 more sets to statistically have it happen once!
REgards,
Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
If we believe you flawed calulations are correct, lets look at this in the whole and not in a vaccuum.
The season before and the season after his 263, what were his averages. Let's assume they were 240-250. If you follow your logic, then within those 90 sets on the same easy house shot Mr. Carter should have shot 900. And just to make it easy for you Lefty, we will assume 33 weeks of league each year so that is 99 sets, with very little reduction of the strikes per game. So he should have shot at least 1 900 series. yet, he didn't. Didn't even come close by his own admission. Let me guess, he didn't because he didn;t use your new age mind meld way of thinking?
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Jorge300
"Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!!"
Post by: KDawg77 on August 01, 2006, 01:28:34 PM
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That's right. I said it!
Edited on 8/1/2006 1:25 PM
Post by: spmcgivern on August 01, 2006, 01:30:32 PM
Post by: splendorlex on August 01, 2006, 01:31:29 PM
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Check out my bowling journal!
http://www.allbowling.com/journal/public.php?uid=1792&leagueid=912
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Post by: onerevaway on August 01, 2006, 06:45:13 PM