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Author Topic: Update on Mush are Gold  (Read 14075 times)

Joe Jr

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Update on Mush are Gold
« on: July 10, 2006, 07:43:51 AM »
Not sure anyone cares but Jeff Mop is giving updates.

Update1:
quote:

If you want to read an ACTUAL report, I'm sitting here at Boca Bowl where Mushtare is actually bowling his first round (no, he didn't prebowl). His first game started off with a strike, then he went Big 4, missed them all (one of the corners was out, so it was 7-), then he flagged the headpin left leaving the 1-3-6 and chopped the headpin clean off. At this point, he had 32 in the third. He did make a nice comeback, though, going triple, then spare strike spare strike the rest of the game for 191.

I didn't see most of the second game, but I did see a runaway brooklyn where he left a 5-pin. He also finished the game X 7/ S8- XXX for 200 on the dot. He is now -9 after 2.

The pattern in this center is a 35 foot pattern. The breakpoint is out near 5, so bowlers are either playing up the gutter or freewheeling it. Mushtare is freewheeling it, but the lanes will start carrying down soon, so he will get some push in the middle, but it might come at the expense of bringing the ball back from the outsides. We'll see what happens.


The kid actually doesn't throw the ball half bad. He definitely throws it better than on that video clip from the news report we all saw. Still, he grabs and hits up on the ball a TON. His accuracy needs lots of work as well, partly because of how much he grabs it at the bottom.

There is a news crew here following him around. Rumor has it it's ESPN, but it could be a local crew. I can't tell.

I will update as the squad goes on

--------------------
- Joe
Formerly Richard Cranium

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House shots are killing this sport.

 

Ragnar

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Re: Update on Mush are Gold
« Reply #61 on: July 18, 2006, 12:23:40 PM »
Ah, that explains it.
--------------------
"I do desire that we may be better strangers."  Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
"aroyskrikn zoln dir di oygn fun kop"
Wyrd bið ful aræd!
(Thought to be a member of something called the PMS club by some.)

Ragnar

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Re: Update on Mush are Gold
« Reply #62 on: July 18, 2006, 12:42:17 PM »
Chad, had you believed enough you might have posted this

 
quote:


If only you believe like I believe baby
We'd get by
If only you believe in miracles baby
So would I
If only you believe like I believe baby
We'd get by
If only you believe in miracles baby
So would I

I might have to move heaven and earth to prove it to you baby
So we're making love and you feel the power and I feel the power
Then there's really nothing that we can't do if we wanted to baby
We could exist on the stars, it'd be so easy

All we gotta do is get a little faith in you
Oh, I've been so many places…I've seen some things
I know love is the answer
Keeps holding this world together
Ain't nothin' better
Ain't nothin' better
And all the answers to our prayers
Hell, it's the same everywhere, baby
Nothing ever breaks up the heart
Only tears give you away

Then you're right where I found ya
With my arms around ya
Oh baby, baby, baby love is a magic word..yeah
Few ever find in a lifetime
But from that very first look in your eyes
I knew you and I had but one heart
Only our bodies were apart
That was so easy, so easy
I had a taste of the real world
When I went down on you girl

If only you believe like I believe baby
We'd get by
If only you believe in miracles baby
So would I
If only you believe like I believe baby
We'd get by
If only you believe in miracles baby
So would I

I can hear windmills and rainbows
whenever you're talkin to me
I feel like swirling and dancin
whenever you're walkin with me
You ripple like a river when I touch you
When I pluck your body like a string
When I start dancin inside ya
Oh baby, you make me wanna sing

Yeah baby, baby, baby, baby
Oh yeah, all right
Baby, we're sure doin it tonight
Everytime you come by let me try
Pretty please, sugar on it
That's how I like it
I can't even believe it with you
It's like having every dream I ever wanted come true
I picked up your vibes
You know it opened my eyes
But, I'm still dreamin…yeah
And you're right where I found ya
With my arms around ya

If only you believe like I believe baby
We'd get by
If only you believe in miracles baby
So would I
If only you believe like I believe baby
We'd get by
If only you believe in miracles baby
So would I
So would I
So would I

If only you believe like I believe baby
We'd get by
If only you believe in miracles baby
So would I
If only you believe like I believe baby
We'd get by
If only you believe in miracles baby
So would I
 

--------------------
"I do desire that we may be better strangers."  Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
"aroyskrikn zoln dir di oygn fun kop"
Wyrd bið ful aræd!
(Thought to be a member of something called the PMS club by some.)

LuckyLefty

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Re: Update on Mush are Gold
« Reply #63 on: July 18, 2006, 02:20:25 PM »
a match on an open shot is coming!

That will make it all clear...I think!

stay tuned.

Ah, that explains it!

REgards,

Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

baccala8872

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Re: Update on Mush are Gold
« Reply #64 on: July 18, 2006, 02:43:44 PM »
Just one (hopefully) funny random thought that just crept into my demented mind.  And "NO" Lucky, this is not a shot at you, so please don't take it as such.

But whenever I read Lucky's mega-enthusiastic, tofu-powered affirmations of what is possible, I keep thinking that I am reading an advertisement for a cheesy upcoming Doug Henning magic show.

For those who have no meaningful recollection of the Reagan years, just Google Doug Henning.
--------------------
"Enjoy every sandwich."
--a cancer-ridden Warren Zevon's reply to David Letterman's question of, "What have you learned from life?"

LuckyLefty

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Re: Update on Mush are Gold
« Reply #65 on: July 18, 2006, 02:56:23 PM »
I don't eat Tofu!

But I accomplish things others believe I can't or other people don't think can be done!

The people I associate with accomplish things they didn't find themselves capable of at one time either.  Sans Tofu.

Robert Mushtare's mother was nice enough to share with me "his vision" his realization he was going to do what he did!  It always happens that way!
I found her the salt of the earth and as honest and loving of her son as the day was long!

Again...I've put myself out here about 500 to 2!  Me and the USA Junior coach(not bad company).

In a few days a lot of you are going to be kissin my grits...or I'm going to be kissin quite a few grits!

I'd rather be you...in the herd...part of a group think .it's so easy to say...
"Statistically speaking...and you know what...you are right!"  Almost always!

BUT

Not this time!

I'll await the results of the upcoming match...that's the pudding in this case.

Pucker UP!  Kiss my...

REgards,

Luckylefty

--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

KDawg77

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Re: Update on Mush are Gold
« Reply #66 on: July 18, 2006, 02:58:46 PM »
And what were you doing with Mushtare's mother? Trying to breed an army of neo-con super bowlers?!
--------------------
That's right. I said it!

Ragnar

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Re: Update on Mush are Gold
« Reply #67 on: July 18, 2006, 03:06:30 PM »
quote:
And what were you doing with Mushtare's mother? Trying to breed an army of neo-con super bowlers?!
--------------------
That's right. I said it!

I think he was trying to feel success.
--------------------
"I do desire that we may be better strangers."  Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
"aroyskrikn zoln dir di oygn fun kop"
Wyrd bið ful aræd!
(Thought to be a member of something called the PMS club by some.)

Jorge300

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Re: Update on Mush are Gold
« Reply #68 on: July 18, 2006, 03:48:53 PM »
Lefty,
    Now you are just going off the deep end!! Musthare*'s mother believes him, WHAT A SHOCK!!!!! She thinks her son can do anything he sets his mind too, ANOTHER SHOCK!!!! If she said anything different, now that might be a shock.

This Pete Weber thing, which I haven't heard from anyone but you, is a joke. No matter what happens it doesn't prove a damn thing. Anybody can beat anybody on any given day, even if the other bowler bowls great. So either way no matter who wins it doesn't mean anything.

Now you are saying this other guy can shoot 5 900 series huh. How many does he have by the way? Im guessing zero, zilch, none, nada. Does that mean he isn't a great bowler, not in the least. But it shows the difficulty of this feat. Musthare*'s, even in practice and even with the prebowl advantage, claims are not legitimate. And no amount of faith and believing in yourself or what other hocus-pocus scientology bull you believe can make a stone 8 pin fall. It can't overcome a .5 mph speed difference one shot that leaves a stone 9 even though everything else was perfect. The reason their aren't more 900 series isn't because there aren't skilled bowlers out there, it because of the amount of luck it takes on top having that great skill. All it takes is one ball that overreacts unexpectedly, or the oil to carrydown further then expected one shot, or one of 100 other small minute things to happen that ruins what could have been a 900 series. And no one, NO ONE can control that, unless you are the almighty himself. So please stop with this new-age pyscho babble and try some reality for a change. I think you need it.
--------------------
Jorge300

"Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!!"

Edited on 7/18/2006 3:46 PM
Jorge300

Ragnar

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Re: Update on Mush are Gold
« Reply #69 on: July 18, 2006, 03:55:42 PM »
But Jorge, Mustary can adjust for the 10 pin he's about to leave before he leaves it.  (I hear he can also bend spoons with his mind).
--------------------
"I do desire that we may be better strangers."  Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
"aroyskrikn zoln dir di oygn fun kop"
Wyrd bið ful aræd!
(Thought to be a member of something called the PMS club by some.)

LuckyLefty

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Re: Update on Mush are Gold
« Reply #70 on: July 18, 2006, 04:14:44 PM »
Talking!  Nice person!
I have family from the same small town and high school!  Years and years ago!

REgards,

Luckylefty
I'm out on this subject until after the PDW /RM match...I've said everthing that I can think of!
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

Ragnar

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Re: Update on Mush are Gold
« Reply #71 on: July 18, 2006, 04:17:15 PM »
quote:
...I've said everthing that I can think of!



and more.....
--------------------
"I do desire that we may be better strangers."  Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
"aroyskrikn zoln dir di oygn fun kop"
Wyrd bið ful aræd!
(Thought to be a member of something called the PMS club by some.)

Lane1fanatic

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Re: Update on Mush are Gold
« Reply #72 on: July 18, 2006, 09:18:33 PM »
Lefty,
  Yes I bowled gold, yes I saw Mush bowl and yes I did talk to him about his supposid 900s and it's all a load of crap. I asked him a great deal of questions on the subject and he continued to give me the look of regret. He knows he didn't shoot 900 and feels bad that he fooled the country. ESPN interviewed me about the subject so look out for it.

Steven

DP3

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Re: Update on Mush are Gold
« Reply #73 on: July 18, 2006, 10:09:26 PM »
It's actually going to be Tim Mack vs. Robert Mushtare.  


He doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell.  And Mack is only at about 75%.
--------------------
- DP3
Hoss Central Inc.
Respect the Game

Jorge300

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Re: Update on Mush are Gold
« Reply #74 on: July 19, 2006, 07:42:52 AM »
quote:
Talking!  Nice person!
I have family from the same small town and high school!  Years and years ago!

REgards,

Luckylefty
I'm out on this subject until after the PDW /RM match...I've said everthing that I can think of!
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..


So since you have no good answers for my post, your just going to leave, huh.

And if it is Tim Mack, Musthare* should not take him lightly. I bowled with Tim in college and he is an incredbile bowler, it's a shame injuries have limited him in the past few years.

And Lefty, why is this being held at Musthare*'s house?? If we really want to see how good this kid is, how about a match at a neutral site, with a real shot that neither has seen, maybe the BTM shot, 48 ft of oil, gutter to gutter, lets see who is the better bowler then.
--------------------
Jorge300

"Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!!"
Jorge300

LuckyLefty

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Re: Update on Mush are Gold
« Reply #75 on: July 19, 2006, 10:29:16 AM »
OK...I was trying to stop...but you keep baiting me with your nonsensical posts.

I tried to stop.

You have a problem reading...seriously.

Friend above who bowled once a week for several years.
Did shoot 36 strikes in a row.  Started late...went 65 thru 5, then sheet, sheet, sheet, and then asked them to turn on the lanes and went the next 5 in front of a packed house.  Not a 900 but he claimed if he bowled more...he said he would do it!  I believed him.

I had also seen him throw 30 in a row and yes did get tapped on 31.  Not as dynamic a ball as Robert Mushtare!

Have also seen a wonderful bowler on a hot streak start 9 straight games in league with 9 straight strikes..  Though he did not close out any games despite having many 300 under his belt it was at that time I realized that 900 was certainly possible for SOME...if the mind was properly ready.  His wasn't.
Every miss he had in the 10th(I believe all the series hit 800).  Was some form of different shot than the previous 9!  We've all seen it!

The point is...shooting 900 is not about who is a better bowler on all conditions!  It is instead a combination 1.  Usually a pretty sweet shot
2. big carrying house 3. big carrying bowler 4. letting it happen.

Comments above also reference the improvement of a set that probably comes from prebowl.

I LOVE the conditions you have set up for Robby Mushtare to show his has the affinity to shoot a 900.  Either bowl great at JOG on a sport condition for the first time...or NO you didn't do it!

There are many bowlers who can bowl great on open conditions and struggle on tough conditions who shoot multiple big 800 sets!  There inadequecy on sport conditions is usually a matter of experience, ball drilling and comfort.
Also just as in golf there are the grinders and there are the soarers!

Some great golfers and great bowlers just have small but great games.
In golf...small game Tom Kite, big game John Daly.  John Daly does not usually do as well at a tight format course as Tom Kite.
In bowling small game Walter Ray, big game Wes Malott!  
Usually in the finals of the US open Walter RAy.

Other golfers also don't have the mental make up to be tournament winners all the time.  And yet some of the tournament winners do not have the makeup to set records.
An example of a record setter in golf...Billy Dunk from Australia, or Johnny Miller from the US.  Jack Nicklaus on the other hand set very few course records when playing in Golf and yet we all know that he was the greatest ever.

Could Jack Nicklaus set the course records that Johnny Miller could...it appeared not.  So we have to acknowledge Johnny Miller had a seperate and spectacular skill.  (However he had his tipping point....many felt that Johnny probably could have shot in the 50s almost 10 times in his career and yet would tighten up and miss an easy putt on 15 thru 18 to only shoot 60..or 61) .

The question is not whether Robert Mushtare is a better bowler.  We just had an example where on a tough grind it out condition 200 + bowlers were better than him.

The question again is does he have the ability to shoot 900 and does he have that special something that record breakers have...it is different skill often than tournament winners.

If you continue to answer the question only is he the best bowler in the world sadly you are going to constantly lead yourself to the only conclusion one can come up with!!  NO!

Your refusal to understand that by having a match with a high scoring top notch pro to show his legitimacy as a guy who likes to throw strikes on an easy condition can lead you to only one logical conclusion.  He couldn't do it!

But travelling down this faulty path of logic that only the top players can set records in a sport is to deny the existance of

Tom Doty lowest 9 hole score ever
Johnny Miller multiple scores under 62 in golf
Moe Norman multiple scores under 60 in competition in Canada but NOT the leading pro in the world
Norman Manley over 50 hole in ones in his golf career not even a pro golfer
Art Wall I still believe all time hole in one leader in golf and a very good pro but not Jack Nicklaus.
Bob Learn all time highest score on TV but not Walter Ray.
Jeff Carter setting the all time highest average record in bowling while Walter Ray is the best bowler in the World.

What is the matter with these record setters who think they can set records while not being the best in the world at their sport.

So the point is this...

NO one...not me!...
Is saying that Robert Musthare is the best bowler in the world(certainly not yet).  

What I am simply saying is the following.

He and his family appear honest!  
He throws a type of ball that looks very 900 possible!
The mindset to set records is different than the mindset to dominate the pro or amateur tours.
It is not necessary to be the best in the world to set records on easier formats.

Your denial of anyway for him to show that he has the capability for very high scoring on easy conditions is typical of a mindset that just doesn't want it to be so!  Why that is important to you or anyone I can't figure out.  These 900s are bringing interest and excitement to bowling!

So under the conditions you are trapped in and always will come back to...if Robert Mushtare doesn't instantly become the greatest bowler in the world on all conditions he therefore cannot set records you will always be right and trapped in your fallacious logical box.

The question is NOT...is Robert Mushtare the world's greatest bowler(and your thought that because I say he can set records and other bowlers probably can't is an insult show this trap you are in).

Tom Kite would never be insulted if someone said to him...hey a local kid shot 58 on a local 6700 yard course and then he shot 59 last week.  His response would be ..."Send him over to Pebble Beach and we'll have a match".  This doesn't answer the question of whether the kid shot 58 and 59 or if Tom Kite could shoot 58 on the 6700 course(I doubt he could).  He would not care and would value his money making skill of shooting 67s on difficult courses as proof of his value as a golfer.

As an example of a similar thing in bowling.  I could say to my acquaintance Dennis Psarapoulous in bowling..."hey a local guy shot 855 in the county just south of us do you have an 855"?  He would say..."Nope...but great...I'm going to the US senior Open and next week...I led by over 100 pins into the finals last year is he coming?"  He would NOT be insulted as he values his skill on difficult conditions over 855 shooting on easy conditions as it makes him money!  

Me I love scoring records type of guys...I think it is a neat skill!
I perceive it as different!  One thing I know from personal experience...in general it does not pay!  If I had my little world....Robert Mushtare would stay in Carthage and continue setting 900 records for the rest of his life on his wide open shot!  But inevitably we know this skill does not pay and is different from the skill that determines who is the best bowler!  

As a result just like Jeff Carter he will try to advance and change his game!
It will probably get a little less explosive.  Like Jeff says...he doubts he could average near his previous record if he went back and tried to pursue that record.  Instead he went out and made a commitment to changing his game to become a force on the PBA tour.  This has been a difficult transition but it looks like he has turned the corner and will become a great force out there.

Whether Robert Mushtare advances and makes changes to bowl on all conditions is unknown.  Probably just like Jeff says above his high scoring ability on OPEn shots will decrease with those changes.

AGAIN the question is not about who is the best bowler that is Walter Ray Williams and Tommy Jones.  The question is does Robert Mushtare have that type of game to shoot 900 on a wide open conditions.
And what forum can help us show that skill.  I believe a match on those same conditions could point us to the conclusion that this young man has some explosive capabilities for high scoring while at home!  

The other question is why you cannot get the difference in the two different sets of personal skills?  How can we explain the record setters above who were not the greatest winners in their sport in the world? Only by acknowledging that being best in the world and a record setter in your sport are two different items!  Why the record setters above don't get it is an interesting question also.  Why don't they understand they are not suppossed to set those records if they exist in your world?  Jorge?

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS I apologize to all who have read similar comments from me for over 6 months on this subject.
PPS please don't bring out the statistically improbable argument for me...it is tired and old and fallacious!
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana