Post by: Silencer on November 22, 2006, 05:55:09 PM
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And Then...........
I left another 10 pin
J-Rad Lawrence
Post by: Mercyless on November 23, 2006, 11:01:39 AM
Edited on 11/23/2006 11:53 AM
Post by: Brandon Riley on November 23, 2006, 07:57:07 PM
i wish they'd adopt this rule in canada!
Post by: flipback11 on November 26, 2006, 12:22:38 AM
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Yeah... I'm a lefty...
Post by: Joe Jr on November 26, 2006, 12:34:41 AM
That's all I have to say on the subject.
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- Joe
Formerly Brunswick Lefty
Banned under the user name Richard Cranium
Post by: flipback11 on November 26, 2006, 01:03:09 AM
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Yeah... I'm a lefty...
Post by: Lane1fanatic on November 26, 2006, 08:33:17 PM
Post by: tommymo on November 26, 2006, 08:59:13 PM
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Becoming a father isn't difficult, But it's very difficult to be a father.
10/21/05 Kaitlyn Emily, Daddy's little girl!
R.I.P Kevin Trombley 11/26/05 You were taken too soon!
Tommy the Fish
F.O.S Mafia Soldier You throw balls, we throw BOMBS. No wonder you hate us
Enriched x2
Tsunami
Solid Uranium
Solid Cobalt Bomb
Cobalt Bomb
Post by: Jzero on November 26, 2006, 09:10:10 PM
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if all else fails, just throw it.
Luck-When skill meets opportunity
Smart-When knowledge meets opportunity
Arsenal-
Angular One
Rampage
Atomic Charge
XXXcel
Post by: bowler247 on November 26, 2006, 10:52:17 PM
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\/
Post by: jrbowler on November 27, 2006, 02:06:34 PM
You would have to be the only person on the team. This rule is for singles competition. They appear they don't want any adults score helping you out or you helping them out, which in most cases would be.
If you want to bowl with an adult on your team, you would have to have everyone in the league accepting scholarships- including adults.
Post by: KATHI on November 27, 2006, 07:25:03 PM
Pages 124 - 125 of the 2006-07 Playing Rules address this issue.
Post by: KATHI on November 27, 2006, 08:25:55 PM
The new rule would allow youth bowlers to bowl adult singles tournaments which award cash to the winners if they, the youth, first sign a waiver that they will not accept the cash awards should they win such. If the youth bowlers can talk the tournament director into changing the cash award to a scholarship award (to be deposited with SMART) that would be ok also.
I don't know how the adult tournament community is going to look at this rule change. Most adult tournaments cost quite a bit more than a youth tournament. Why would kids want to pay the additional costs for no return on their investment?
Post by: daveyamo on November 28, 2006, 12:48:11 PM
As for the other part I am leaning toward the side that thinks that most adult tournaments (5-gamers, ABT, etc here in SoCal) would not want to hassle with the SMART system- setting up an account, depositing funds, etc. when they are used to just handing over a check or an envelope of cash. I don't think most juniors realize the amount of paperwork and web-time that is involved in running a simple tournament club.
It's a pretty simple three-part rule
1) If an event is singles only and you wave your right to any cash not in the form of scholarship and waive your right to any bowling equipment/gc/merchandise greater than $500 period you can bowl
2) You can win bowling equipment/gc/merchandise less than $500 and not lose your junior status
3) You are not protected from losing high school or college eligbility if you follow the above guidelines
Remember that any gift certificate that can be redeemed for cash is considered cash. Wouldn't want someone to lose their eligibility over a few bucks...
Long live the Yamo Challenge.. May you carry all your 10-pins..
Check out www.bowljat.org for more information on Southern California's Finest Junior Bowlers
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Hey... that's "Mr. Yamo" to you...
Post by: Bowler19 on November 28, 2006, 01:23:49 PM
Lazolio
You can still bowl collegiate. I know a few bowlers who have bowl and won over 500 in adult tournaments and still bowl in college.
"The prizes authorized by a state high school athletic association or a collegiate athletic association recognized by USBC and USBC Collegiate are not subject to the limitations of this rule."
The allowable amount is decided by these organizations and they may or may not be allowed to bowl. I beleive College can't win money or prizes during college competition not sure any college bowlers care to clear this up.
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Bowler19
But be not afraid of greatness: some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them.-W. Shakespear
Post by: Platinum Bowler on November 28, 2006, 09:41:56 PM
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B-Car
Post by: Silencer on November 29, 2006, 01:22:49 AM
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And Then...........
I left another 10 pin
J-Rad Lawrence
Post by: KATHI on November 29, 2006, 06:12:47 AM
Unfortunately this seems to be another example of USBC not thinking things through. The wording of the news item does not limit the type of gift certificates eligible to be awarded....pro-shop, grocery store, Wal-marts, Borders, etc....so, at the moment, I'd have to agree that the Visa gift card is an allowable merchandise award.
Post by: jbtsouthwest on November 29, 2006, 10:11:44 AM
Wow... just, wow. Lots to address here.
First, it's important to not lose track of why/how these rule changes magically happened.
1) Team USA (in which adults and juniors compete together) very much wanted to have $500 squad leader prizes to boost entries. This would violate previous junior rules, even if they awarded it in scholarships. There are a few people with strong Team USA connections on the Rules committee, and..... TA-DA!!! Suddenly, the youth rule changes, making the $500 squad prize legal. Funny the new rule picked $500, huh.
2) Chris Barnes' Thanksgiving event in Dallas wanted to award Columbia balls and shirts as prizes (heck, we all do). As we know, even awarding a piece of string was illegal. They were 'getting away with it' (probably inadvertantly), until people started pointing out that a tournament advertised on page one of bowl.com was violating their own new rules. And... PRESTO! Shirts and balls are okay again!
The point: If you have USBC's ear, you can change the very fabric of 'youth bowling' to suit short term needs, clearly without any thought process about the long-term effects, in direct contrast to the "necessary inflexibility" the previous 'new rules' were insisted to be based on.
What is infuriating about this from my personal perspective is that USBC used my (and many others') argument as to why the original rule changes were counterproductive in the first place to justify their own rule changes. In the press release, USBC claims to have realized that mandating the strictest high school rules (Illinois, Kansas, etc.) nationwide was "unneccesarily restrictive". Well.... yeah! I'm glad that they realized this. But... wouldn't then the restrictions on SMART, put in place along similar lines, be similarly restrictive? Hmm.
USBC has told me countless times that they know we run a good event, and handle our scholarship programs in a spotless manner. Further, they acknowledge that all of these SMART restrictions potentially affect only a tiny minority (NCAA females) under current guidelines, and may not even affect them at all if rules change yet again down the line. However, they also have justified this over-protection of the few at the expense of the many because they want 'zero risk' for their bowlers- cover everyone and there are no worries...
...that's all well and good, but they have now just done the exact opposite (because it is convenient for them)!!! In the FAQ that goes along with the press release, they say (to paraphrase): "Well, bowling for merchandise and in adult tourneys may indeed mess up your high school or college eligibility, which is the only reason why we've done all these crazy changes, but now that's up to your parents to know each state's and college's rules, not us."
Are you freaking kidding me, USBC? That's not what you've INSISTED to me and other 'dissenters' for the last eleven months!!! That's the exact opposite! It leads to an obvious bottom line for us as an uncertified event that would prefer to be certified: Let certified events who qualify (and agree to the same checks and regulations we previously did for nine years) not bank with "smart" if they feel it does not enhance their program, because it, as it always has been, is up to the kids, parents, and the tournament to protect kids' eligibilities, and not to restrict Arizona kids because of North Dakota's high school football regulations (for example).
It is my fond hope that the right folks at USBC will say, "Gee, you're right," and that this new rule will open the door for more appropriate revisions to the many flawed new rules introduced in the last year. I'll be the verrrry blue guy in the corner holding my breath.
****
As far as the new rule itself, and what's been talked about on this thread:
Of course the kids are going to think this is great, and in individual cases it will be. Of course tournaments should be able to give out champs' shirts- thank goodness that's back in. That was as bad as the two-week long no plaques rule.
This may be a great new rule, maybe not... it will be interesting to see the way it plays out.
The biggest problem is, as previously stated, junior tournaments that will give out $499.99 gift cards to Best Buy. Bad idea. Keep it clearly bowling-related only; I think that's what "we" all wanted, anyway.
As far as the 'bowl adult for no money' waiver, I actually like it, except that I think it should be limited- this is an idea we've talked about for a long time out here. Let kids bowl, say, 5 adult events a year max, waiving prizes (or earning scholarships), just to get their feet wet, realize that geez adult bowling is tough (and rude, and alcoholic, etc...), and not make it such a life-or-death decision to go adult. This would be a logistic impossibility to track of course, which is why I assumed it never happened. I never thought allowing unlimited adult waived bowling would be even considered. Interesting to say the least.
I think that tournament directors who do allow youth to bowl will have a lot of extra responsibility to handle situations we haven't even thought of yet- situations I hope never happen but I know will- it's not just the money that they're waiving, they're waiving the fact they're a KID, and as many kids that become more involved in bowling because of this, I fear that more will become disillusioned.
I think the jury is still out on this one....
1) It should have been thought through better first- instead they are trupmeting the fact of how quickly they pushed it through- hopefully they can trumpet again how quickly it's amended.
2) It shouldn't have taken a "USBC's pet" tournament to force a change
3) It should be followed up with more appropriate changes.
4) Bowling merchandise only!!!
5) Kids, this is a never-before seen opportunity. You might as well take advantage of it, if for no other reason than I'd be interested in the feedback. Will kids enjoy adults more, see $$$, and most of them go adult, thus depleting juniors even more? Since USBC is all about youth, will tons more kids sign up for youth bowling, knowing they can bowl an adult tourney whenever they want? Is that the anticipated benefit?
Let's see what happens...
Just one man who cares about bowling...
Jeff Hemer, Executive Director
Junior Bowlers Tour Southwest/Northwest
www.bowljbt.com
Post by: bowlingmaniac017 on November 29, 2006, 11:38:25 AM
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Mike
Post by: Duke of Earl on November 29, 2006, 12:57:40 PM
Amazing!
Post by: OGrady on December 01, 2006, 12:02:38 PM
USBC's frequent changes to Youth Bowling have clearly affected the sport in a negative way in the past year. Several proposals to "improve" the sport have been implemented as rule changes with the most devastatingly shocking one; the modification of Rule 400. The changes have left many junior bowlers unaware and confused about their status to compete in adult events. This thread is pure evidence of how many juniors have no idea which events they may compete in and what kinds of prizes they may accept. Confusion is the only modification the USBC has added to Youth Bowling.
Recent changes to 2007 USBC Team USA Trials event is the evident cause for the change of Rule 400. At first, I was completely shocked by the change, now it is very simple why the change was imposed. The USBC has "fouled up" over and over again with liberal changes to our sport. These foul ups had to be justified by other rule changes so that USBC is not in violation OF THEIR OWN RULES! I was excited at first with the rule change. But I have thought it over and spoke to a few people about it and realize this change is the nail in the coffin of YOuth Bowling!
As enticing as it sounds, I would love to compete in the US Open which is only 15 minutes from my house and still be able to try out in Buffalo for 2008 Junior Team USA. However, I can not gain ANYTHING great enough to compete in the event as a junior. The greatest grievance will come from Adult tournament directors who become quite exhausted of having to fill out SMART forms because a handful of juniors cashed in a KING OF THE HILL event. Most of these directors have never dealt with SMART before as my local center's manager attested to.
Right now, I will NOT compete in an Adult tournament even if there was a waiver that I signed or a declaration of Youth eligibility attached to my entry blank. The future will dictate my decisions. I hope many prosperous youth players do not jeopardize their Youth eligibility because they were unaware of stipulations in USBC's rule changes. As for now, the future sure doesn't look bright.
Jeff, check your PM's.
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OG
2006 U.S Junior Amateur Champion
David Knight Sr. @ Joe's Pro Shop 7550 City AVe. Philadelphia, PA
Anything with an E is good for me.
www.bowlersunited.com/
www.Buddiesproshop.com/
Edited on 12/1/2006 7:08 PM
Edited on 12/1/2006 7:11 PM
Post by: BallsDeep on December 01, 2006, 02:37:30 PM
That being said, there was a time when bowling thrived, and its governing body, YABA, or the ABC allowed the sport to thrive. My personal opinion though is that it was necessary that changes needed to be made in order to ensure the success of bowling in the future. Technology in the sport, and the social landscape of the world certainly was not going to be halted. The inherent problem that I find is that these changes are aimed at gaining the greatest level of earnings, and control, rather than adopting to the changes in the public.
I personally feel as though this is the reason that they are forcing all scholarship tournaments to use SMART for their scholarship funds. They say that they want to regulate the scholarships (a problem with some tournaments), yet their return of 2% interest (estimation) shows their bluff.
They have no motivation to serve the bowler, and no competing organization to regulate their affairs. Such is the reason that they have sacrificed the bowler for the dollar, and such is the reason that they will continue to do so. I hope that those scolarship tours that have refused to go down with this sinking ship continue to do so and prosper with their bowlers first attitudes.
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four fried chickens and a coke[/size=4]
Let me say something, let me say something...
AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Post by: Duke of Earl on December 01, 2006, 07:49:00 PM
Post by: BallsDeep on December 01, 2006, 10:13:36 PM
quote:
And such is the reason they should all resign effectively immediately. As well, everyone should stop sanctioning since there is no longer any benefit to doing so and then they would have no membership fees, no salaries and no reason for being.
There are reasons that bowling still needs a governing body. Without a means of sanctioning, there would be a lack of standardation of the sport, and the means in which it has operated would be severely compromised. It has become increasingly difficult to regulate competition with the technological advances that have occured, but there is still a level of standardization. One may bowl on oily or dry lane conditions, but the lane is always 60 feet, it has to be a certified surface, there has to be an approved lane dressing, and one has to abide by the rules of the sport to compete. While there are some very respected bowling tours that can enforce their own rules, and there are numerous unsanctioned leagues, the USBC and its rules still guides this competition.
I personally hope that these tours maintain a great level of success. I believe that continued success will shed light on the fact that the USBC still serves bowlers, not the other way around. In seeing this I hope that the USBC would reconsider some of their recent regulations. If they continue on the same path as they are currently on, being stubborn and not listening to some of the best tournament directors in the country, I could see the possibility of a competing governing body started by these directors and bowlers. Such is a bit extreme, but it seems more feasible every day. I would like to think that there are enough people that care about bowling, and understand what bowlers want that not only could such a governing body start up, but also flourish.
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four fried chickens and a coke[/size=4]
Let me say something, let me say something...
AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Post by: jbtsouthwest on December 05, 2006, 10:35:07 AM
Nothing's in my PM's....
Jeff
Post by: Duke of Earl on December 06, 2006, 11:23:29 AM
Post by: BallsDeep on December 06, 2006, 03:41:20 PM
They have their own set of regulations. Perhaps these regulations, aside from the recent changes that the USBC made to push them away, are the same as the USBC's, but they are still regulations. They have people that will follow the regulations, just like in the USBC, that prescribe to their respective tournaments. If there was unity among such tours, such would be much easier to follow.
Does anyone have any input as to this. Could such a coalition be instituted, essentially being a democratic version of the USBC, controlled by those that actually care about the bowlers.
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four fried chickens and a coke[/size=4]
Let me say something, let me say something...
AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH